Author Topic: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode  (Read 6047 times)

Offline Megillot

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2015, 07:30:26 pm »
Dear developers, if you're reading this, please, don't include any of this timey wimey switcheroo wish fulfillment stuff in the game.
Sunrider is centered around a big war. War is not sugar and rainbows. Good people are hurt and die at war. When only bad guys die and good guys live happily ever after, it's not war, it's children playing in sandbox. Unconditional happy end will only undermine the impact of a dark serious story.

Who am I kidding, I'm sure the complete game script is already written anyway and nothing any of us say here will change the story.

Offline NinjaDork

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2015, 08:07:44 pm »
So not to put too fine a point on it, your entire post is invalid, because not only does that option exist,  but if you choose it, Ava will go back and forth for a while, but she will choose to stay with you on the bridge.  SHE WILL NOT SACRIFICE HERSELF unless you use command or the wishall to force her to.
You are too hasty to dismiss his post for having found a tiny flaw in semantics. Not unexpected given this is a really touchy subject for you. In deference to that, I won't add to Marx-93's argument. But I disagree on your assessment of Ava: I believe she would have sacrificed herself (while disobeying orders) but was restrained by Kayto's words. She was hardly forced into action, she just wanted permission to leave her post to do what she felt right.

I suppose that's possible.  I'm fairly certain my impression is correct, but I'm willing to mark this as equally likely.

Dear developers, if you're reading this, please, don't include any of this timey wimey switcheroo wish fulfillment stuff in the game.
Sunrider is centered around a big war. War is not sugar and rainbows. Good people are hurt and die at war. When only bad guys die and good guys live happily ever after, it's not war, it's children playing in sandbox. Unconditional happy end will only undermine the impact of a dark serious story.

Who am I kidding, I'm sure the complete game script is already written anyway and nothing any of us say here will change the story.

I'm pretty certain you're trolling, so I'm going to shelve my original reply in favor of this one (I might pull it out later though);

If you'd take a moment to go back and look over prior posts in this thread, as well as my introduction, you would notice that I have no objections to the scene where the Alliance raids the Ondessan slums and slaughters a (relatively) innocent child right in front of Kayto Shields, as well as a number of other civilians.  You would note that I do not have objections to the scene where the King of Ryuvia is executed right in front of his own daughter.  You would not that while I chose to save the Agamemnon, I have no objections to the inclusion of an entire plot line that revolves around you destroying it, and everyone inside.

You would also notice the statement, earlier in this thread I believe, that I am a first aid responder and have been wrist deep in someone else's blood before.

Among other jobs, I spent six months working for Youtube filtering and yanking inappropriate videos, like the one with the young hispanic man raping a young woman whom he had partially flayed across the back.  Yes, that lead to an arrest.

I tell you these things so that you may have appropriate context for this next part.  I am intimately familiar with the fact that life, not just war, is horrific and nasty a substantial portion of the time.   I have no objections to a game where the good guys lose, the bad guys win, and terrible, evil shit happens.

I only want to change this one piece of the game, because I do not like a game that does not allow you to take setting-appropriate actions to prevent and/or mitigate said evil shit.

Offline Samu-kun

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2015, 09:40:02 pm »
Well, you know... The problem with fan requests is that stuff costs money and time and not everyone even wants a particular feature or change...


George Lucas' blu-ray changes should be a cautionary tale for any science fiction series. So I'll hold off on retroactively changing things outside of the game play balance unless I'm sure it's something everyone wants and we actually have the resources to accomplish it.

Offline Megillot

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2015, 10:32:43 pm »
I'm pretty certain you're trolling, so I'm going to shelve my original reply in favor of this one (I might pull it out later though);

If you'd take a moment to go back and look over prior posts in this thread, as well as my introduction, you would notice that I have no objections to the scene where the Alliance raids the Ondessan slums and slaughters a (relatively) innocent child right in front of Kayto Shields, as well as a number of other civilians.  You would note that I do not have objections to the scene where the King of Ryuvia is executed right in front of his own daughter.  You would not that while I chose to save the Agamemnon, I have no objections to the inclusion of an entire plot line that revolves around you destroying it, and everyone inside.

You would also notice the statement, earlier in this thread I believe, that I am a first aid responder and have been wrist deep in someone else's blood before.

Among other jobs, I spent six months working for Youtube filtering and yanking inappropriate videos, like the one with the young hispanic man raping a young woman whom he had partially flayed across the back.  Yes, that lead to an arrest.

I tell you these things so that you may have appropriate context for this next part.  I am intimately familiar with the fact that life, not just war, is horrific and nasty a substantial portion of the time.   I have no objections to a game where the good guys lose, the bad guys win, and terrible, evil shit happens.

I only want to change this one piece of the game, because I do not like a game that does not allow you to take setting-appropriate actions to prevent and/or mitigate said evil shit.

I never troll. I read previous posts in this thread, noticed your remark about prior experience and found it irrelevant to scene being discussed. I don't go to introductions forum section; I'm not the part of welcoming committee, sorry. You never said anything about other tragic scenes before, so I had no way to know about your objections or lack thereof; I cannot read minds through Internet. Either way, you're currently objecting to a specific and infamous event and your reaction to previous events will not affect my judgement.

You're not the first one expressing the opinion that game should include the option to resolve the situation in question in best possible way and without casualties. But I think you're the first one demanding that developers put your writing in the game and draw a set of new scenes to go with it.
This game is open source and Ren'Py engine is not that complicated. Maybe you should try to make something using existing assets yourself, build a portfolio, and only then try to impose any changes in the script? I don't like the idea of new people joining the development of almost completed game and forcing their vision. Change from square grid to hexes after First Arrival was bad enough.

Offline NinjaDork

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2015, 12:07:48 am »
I'm pretty certain you're trolling, so I'm going to shelve my original reply in favor of this one (I might pull it out later though);

If you'd take a moment to go back and look over prior posts in this thread, as well as my introduction, you would notice that I have no objections to the scene where the Alliance raids the Ondessan slums and slaughters a (relatively) innocent child right in front of Kayto Shields, as well as a number of other civilians.  You would note that I do not have objections to the scene where the King of Ryuvia is executed right in front of his own daughter.  You would not that while I chose to save the Agamemnon, I have no objections to the inclusion of an entire plot line that revolves around you destroying it, and everyone inside.

You would also notice the statement, earlier in this thread I believe, that I am a first aid responder and have been wrist deep in someone else's blood before.

Among other jobs, I spent six months working for Youtube filtering and yanking inappropriate videos, like the one with the young hispanic man raping a young woman whom he had partially flayed across the back.  Yes, that lead to an arrest.

I tell you these things so that you may have appropriate context for this next part.  I am intimately familiar with the fact that life, not just war, is horrific and nasty a substantial portion of the time.   I have no objections to a game where the good guys lose, the bad guys win, and terrible, evil shit happens.

I only want to change this one piece of the game, because I do not like a game that does not allow you to take setting-appropriate actions to prevent and/or mitigate said evil shit.

I never troll. I read previous posts in this thread, noticed your remark about prior experience and found it irrelevant to scene being discussed. I don't go to introductions forum section; I'm not the part of welcoming committee, sorry. You never said anything about other tragic scenes before, so I had no way to know about your objections or lack thereof; I cannot read minds through Internet. Either way, you're currently objecting to a specific and infamous event and your reaction to previous events will not affect my judgement.

You're not the first one expressing the opinion that game should include the option to resolve the situation in question in best possible way and without casualties. But I think you're the first one demanding that developers put your writing in the game and draw a set of new scenes to go with it.
This game is open source and Ren'Py engine is not that complicated. Maybe you should try to make something using existing assets yourself, build a portfolio, and only then try to impose any changes in the script? I don't like the idea of new people joining the development of almost completed game and forcing their vision. Change from square grid to hexes after First Arrival was bad enough.

I am a bit confused here, because I am certain that I never made a demand.  I've spoken at great length about what I would like changed, why I want it, and my offer to do as much of the work as possible to see the change implemented, but I am quite certain that I never made a statement to the effect of "Make this change or else".  If you could direct me to the exact statement that will demonstrate your accusation, I would appreciate it.

Well, you know... The problem with fan requests is that stuff costs money and time and not everyone even wants a particular feature or change...


George Lucas' blu-ray changes should be a cautionary tale for any science fiction series. So I'll hold off on retroactively changing things outside of the game play balance unless I'm sure it's something everyone wants and we actually have the resources to accomplish it.

...I suppose I understand.  I'm not happy about it, but until I have the money to pay for the change out of my pocket, I'll limit myself to suggestions for future episodes, if you would prefer that.

Offline techercizer

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2015, 01:12:39 pm »
As long as new people are registering to ask the devs to change the game to suit their tastes, I'm still waiting for Sola to dual-wield sniper rifles here guys. Four shots per round or bust!

Offline Elvis Strunk

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2015, 03:47:13 pm »
As long as new people are registering to ask the devs to change the game to suit their tastes, I'm still waiting for Sola to dual-wield sniper rifles here guys. Four shots per round or bust!
Hmm. Can't quite decide if it'd be more awesome with four arms, or somehow using just the two. Either way, I'd actually like to see that.

While we're on the subject of extra arms, how about four armed Phoenix with a blade in each hand. Or four armed Black Jack carrying a truly massive battle axe/war hammer that can only be wielded using all four.

Honestly I just kind of like mechs with four arms.

Offline Samu-kun

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2015, 07:49:59 am »
Did you know originally the Bianca had four legs.


Yeah, that was too weird even for the Bianca.

Offline Elvis Strunk

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2015, 04:58:00 pm »
I would love to see concept art of that, if any exists. That sounds hilarious and I don't even know why.

Offline Megillot

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2015, 09:24:02 pm »
I am a bit confused here, because I am certain that I never made a demand.  I've spoken at great length about what I would like changed, why I want it, and my offer to do as much of the work as possible to see the change implemented, but I am quite certain that I never made a statement to the effect of "Make this change or else".  If you could direct me to the exact statement that will demonstrate your accusation, I would appreciate it.

It's right in the title: you're not making a suggestion, you're persistently asking developers to implement something that exists in your head.

I spent some time on Steamgifts forums, where people are giving away free Steam games. Begging for games is forbidden there: users should give away games out of their free will, not because someone asked for it. But every once in a while someone spokes at great length about what game he would like to be gifted, why can't he buy it himself, how much he loves this game and offers to play it as much as possible if he receives it. Then he gets angry when he receives a warning for begging.
I guess I used to take into account the spirit of comment, not semantics.

Offline NinjaDork

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2015, 01:01:34 am »
I am a bit confused here, because I am certain that I never made a demand.  I've spoken at great length about what I would like changed, why I want it, and my offer to do as much of the work as possible to see the change implemented, but I am quite certain that I never made a statement to the effect of "Make this change or else".  If you could direct me to the exact statement that will demonstrate your accusation, I would appreciate it.

It's right in the title: you're not making a suggestion, you're persistently asking developers to implement something that exists in your head.

I spent some time on Steamgifts forums, where people are giving away free Steam games. Begging for games is forbidden there: users should give away games out of their free will, not because someone asked for it. But every once in a while someone spokes at great length about what game he would like to be gifted, why can't he buy it himself, how much he loves this game and offers to play it as much as possible if he receives it. Then he gets angry when he receives a warning for begging.
I guess I used to take into account the spirit of comment, not semantics.

First, apologies for not getting back to you earlier. 

Second, I don't think you example is applicable for the following reasons;

1)  I have made a still-standing offer to make as much of the change as possible, which is nowhere close to the same thing as what you've described.  The difference between "I will enjoy this and play it as much as possible if I receive it" and "I will take it upon myself to do 1/6-1/3 of the work necessary to make this change possible" (not entirely sure what percentage/fraction of work writing the scenes is) is a lot more than just semantics.

2)  You either missed or ignored this exchange;

Well, you know... The problem with fan requests is that stuff costs money and time and not everyone even wants a particular feature or change...


George Lucas' blu-ray changes should be a cautionary tale for any science fiction series. So I'll hold off on retroactively changing things outside of the game play balance unless I'm sure it's something everyone wants and we actually have the resources to accomplish it.

...I suppose I understand.  I'm not happy about it, but until I have the money to pay for the change out of my pocket, I'll limit myself to suggestions for future episodes, if you would prefer that.

I'm not sure what this looks like to you, but it was intended as a statement of surrender and an offer of tangible aid when possible.  In other words, Samu-kun has made his/her point and explained it to my satisfaction, so I will concede that (s)he is better able than I am to decide what is best for the game and its fans.

<><><><><><><><><><>

Taking another look at this thread, I can see how it could be interpreted as a demand.  But I was never under the impression that I had some kind of inherent right to see these changes implemented, and I never had any intentions of trying to attack the devs or these forums if my wishes were not met.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 01:04:17 am by NinjaDork »

Offline Pal

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2015, 05:11:25 pm »
Shamu is male, just for future reference.

Heinrike [Nov 10, 2016, 11:00:11 am]: I'm bored too, but otherwise bored  Elvis Strunk [Dec 14, 2015, 01:43:59 AM]: Would make it easier to keep track of all the characters, at least. "They're all dead."
Eonymia [Dec 15, 2016, 10:14:17 pm]: Losers don't win, do drugs Arraxis [Feb 18, 2017, 03:12:47 am]: Slither me timbers

Offline Megillot

Re: A Passionate Letter To The Devs; PLEASE Include This In The Next Episode
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2015, 03:49:50 am »


I didn't miss anything.
My initial statement in this thread was made with purpose of letting developers know that plot line proposed by you will be badly received by fans. Or at least me (Do I count for a fan? I consider tactical battles the worst part of Sunrider and play only for the story, but most of other players behave like battles are game's main selling point.)

You wish to integrate certain changes into game's plot and make them official, "canon", so to speak, and ready to work towards it. I, on the other hand, believe that game will be better off without your changes and intend to do everything I can to stop you from achieving your goal and keep your storyline in the realm of mods and fan fiction. Nothing personal.

But ultimately I believe that script is already written and Samu-kin will not outsource any additional new routes to anyone.