Author Topic: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?  (Read 4909 times)

Offline Vaendryl

Heya folks. I'm currently creating the battle engine to be used by the game and if you have any questions, comments, concerns, suggestions or fears post them here!

I don't write the story and I don't draw the art though, so I can't answer everything :)
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Offline Lost Engineer

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2014, 11:29:39 am »
Is there going to be some kind of "tractor beam" command order? Being able to pull an ally out of range or an enemy into a blind side attack seems like it could be fun.

Offline Vaendryl

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2014, 11:43:51 am »
Hey there, Lost.

There will be a large range of different abilities that can be used strategically, like curses that lower the enemies stats to buffs that raise your own. We haven't talked about affecting an enemy's position on the grid yet (as the whole grid system is very new still) but it sounds like a great idea to me! It also wouldn't be that hard to code, so I think there's a good chance it will end up in the game eventually, but I can't guarantee it :p  you might regret this suggestion when the enemy uses it on you, though!  8)

thanks for the question, and thanks for your support!
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Offline MasterFail

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 12:42:17 pm »
you might regret this suggestion when the enemy uses it on you, though!  8)

Heh. I remember a game (don't ask me for the name of it. i'm terrible at remembering names.) that actually had an ability like that. The enemy had it too. There was a rather big design flaw in the enemy's AI, tough: Two enemy units wanted to get the same friendly unit into their respective "preferred" position and of course got into the way of each other. It was patched eventually, but before that it was totally possible to kill all other units, then watch the enemy wasting infinite turns doing basically nothing. And it was hilarious to watch. Ah, the joys of AI design...  ;D
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 12:52:29 pm by MasterFail »

Offline Lost Engineer

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2014, 02:05:32 pm »
Oh yeah, will it be possible to save mid-battle in the new battle engine? I assumed being able to do so in the demo (as well as being able to perform rollback on the parts which call the RNG) was an oversight which won't carry over to the beta, but I might as well ask :).

(Also discussed here: http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.0 )

Offline Vaendryl

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2014, 03:17:29 pm »
Oh yeah, will it be possible to save mid-battle in the new battle engine? I assumed being able to do so in the demo (as well as being able to perform rollback on the parts which call the RNG) was an oversight which won't carry over to the beta, but I might as well ask :).

(Also discussed here: http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.0 )

like I mentioned in that thread: yes. it was not an oversight. I don't want rollback to function during battle but saving should be possible. if you want to abuse it that's your choice. if you feel you're going to abuse it and don't trust yourself there will be options for a more challenging mode.
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Offline Ledabot

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2014, 01:17:58 am »
 My question is about energy. I was wondering if the cost values are ever going to be changed or if the caps are going to be increased with upgrades or by default.

From the demo, the sunrider seems to have rather frustrating energy cost that mean that most of the time, you have left over energy. This is most apparent with kinetic weapons that leave an annoying 30 en remaining. Doing some maths, it seems that a cap of 120 would suffice to help reduce my wrinkles. The Black Jack does a good job with its energy values and is far less annoying.
 

Offline Oreo_Blue

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2014, 01:27:53 am »
I forgot how the Energy Points work on the demo. Do we get extra Energy if we have leftover energy from our last turn?

Will there be a coordinated attack / special boost? It works when you put two or more units in a specific formation. ie: if you put Cosette next to Asaga, they can get special boost "Rivalry", where Asaga and Cosette attack power and accuracy increased. If you put three units surrounding the enemy unit, you can use coordinated "Pincer Attack", which cost the involved units the same Energy Points as individual attack, but will deal twice the damage.

Offline Ledabot

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2014, 01:34:10 am »
 That pincer attack reminds me of the triple pegasus knight attack from fire emblem that gave auto crits. Speaking of which, will we being seeing anything like crits in the game? Even something like being able to hit vital systems causing inability to use engines for a turn or something?
 

Offline mikebrand83

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2014, 01:44:24 am »
On another subject, something that's been on my mind for a while, but keep forgetting to bring up:

With the switch from the column based system in the demo, to the square grid system that the game is changing to, are there any details at this point about what we can expect to see (in terms of similarities and differences) for the game mechanics of units sharing the same space?

Offline Vaendryl

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2014, 03:10:32 am »
wow, lots of good questions!

My question is about energy. I was wondering if the cost values are ever going to be changed or if the caps are going to be increased with upgrades or by default.

From the demo, the sunrider seems to have rather frustrating energy cost that mean that most of the time, you have left over energy. This is most apparent with kinetic weapons that leave an annoying 30 en remaining. Doing some maths, it seems that a cap of 120 would suffice to help reduce my wrinkles. The Black Jack does a good job with its energy values and is far less annoying.

the energy cap of units will increase when you research and/or buy better equipment. the energy cost of various weapons will also likely be rebalanced such that they feel less annoying. right now I've got Sunrider's guns set at 50 EN cost so you can fire twice by expending all your energy.

I forgot how the Energy Points work on the demo. Do we get extra Energy if we have leftover energy from our last turn?

Will there be a coordinated attack / special boost? It works when you put two or more units in a specific formation. ie: if you put Cosette next to Asaga, they can get special boost "Rivalry", where Asaga and Cosette attack power and accuracy increased. If you put three units surrounding the enemy unit, you can use coordinated "Pincer Attack", which cost the involved units the same Energy Points as individual attack, but will deal twice the damage.
No, you won't get extra energy. at the start of every turn you get refilled to your maximum and you never get more than that. unless you upgrade your power systems.
I can't really guarantee it right now but I think it's very likely there will be combined attacks in the game and/or passive buffs by proximity. at least at final release, which will be a while.

That pincer attack reminds me of the triple pegasus knight attack from fire emblem that gave auto crits. Speaking of which, will we being seeing anything like crits in the game? Even something like being able to hit vital systems causing inability to use engines for a turn or something?
crits aren't in the game currently and instead of randomly having a chance of hitting a vital system (some of) your ships will have abilities that directly curse/debuff enemy units, having a similar effect.

On another subject, something that's been on my mind for a while, but keep forgetting to bring up:

With the switch from the column based system in the demo, to the square grid system that the game is changing to, are there any details at this point about what we can expect to see (in terms of similarities and differences) for the game mechanics of units sharing the same space?
Units will not be able to share the same space on the grid normally, but I might end up making an exception to this when 2 Ryders are in melee combat. I can't make a promise that this will actually be in the game at any point, though.
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Offline Elvis Strunk

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2014, 04:36:26 am »
I played a game called Kamidori once that had a potentially useful approach to melee combat. The attacking unit would move onto the same space as the unit they're attacking. If they killed the enemy, they would stay in that spot, but if the enemy survived, they would go back to the last spot they stepped on before moving into the enemy's space. This sounds to me like the kind of system you have in mind, or at least something close to it. What do you think?

Offline Commander Zaelthul

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2014, 05:17:52 am »
If there was one thing I've praised Kamidori for it would be it's approach to combat.
Sadly I expected a much better story and writing but eh I'm a huge fan of story over gameplay.
However back on topic from that diversion.
I like the idea of RNG based status debuffs, so would this chance be able to change via the use of items and stats?
eg. Dexterity increases your chance to inflict a debuff to the target?
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Offline mikebrand83

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2014, 07:19:59 am »
Units will not be able to share the same space on the grid normally, but I might end up making an exception to this when 2 Ryders are in melee combat. I can't make a promise that this will actually be in the game at any point, though.
With that answered, my next immediate question would be what are the current plans for how the demo's mechanism of ryders performing missile interception fire (as well as blindside attacks), will be adapted into grid format where units don't share the same space.

Offline Vaendryl

Re: heya, I'm the lead programmer of Sunrider. got any questions?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2014, 07:46:30 am »
I played a game called Kamidori once that had a potentially useful approach to melee combat. The attacking unit would move onto the same space as the unit they're attacking. If they killed the enemy, they would stay in that spot, but if the enemy survived, they would go back to the last spot they stepped on before moving into the enemy's space. This sounds to me like the kind of system you have in mind, or at least something close to it. What do you think?
I've played it too, but only for a very very short while. despite how long it took to set up and how much the idea interested me I just kept getting distracted by other games/shiny objects. I don't actually remember too much about how combat works but that way of handling melee is pretty interesting. It's too early to decide one way or the other though, but thanks for the suggestion!

If there was one thing I've praised Kamidori for it would be it's approach to combat.
Sadly I expected a much better story and writing but eh I'm a huge fan of story over gameplay.
However back on topic from that diversion.
I like the idea of RNG based status debuffs, so would this chance be able to change via the use of items and stats?
eg. Dexterity increases your chance to inflict a debuff to the target?
I'm not actually sure if the debuff skills will either:
- always hit and always have the same effect
- sometimes hit with the same effect
- always hit with an effect of varying magnitude.
this requires some iteration, discussion and playtesting to see what works for Sunrider, so I can't really promise you what it's going to be in detail. the idea however is that support units will have various tactical skills that will be very useful to you.

Units will not be able to share the same space on the grid normally, but I might end up making an exception to this when 2 Ryders are in melee combat. I can't make a promise that this will actually be in the game at any point, though.
With that answered, my next immediate question would be what are the current plans for how the demo's mechanism of ryders performing missile interception fire (as well as blindside attacks), will be adapted into grid format where units don't share the same space.
My current idea is that any unit that has flak will project an area of influence around it that can extend for a number of cells in all directions. whenever a missile is fired and it passes through this influence a unit will automatically fire upon it. however, there are some heavy diminishing returns to this. this means that every subsequent missile salvo will have a higher chance of not getting shot down. There will also be swarm type missiles that do less damage but in turn reduce flak effectiveness more quickly. these swarm missiles could be more useful against multiple lighter targets as well. We'll have to see how that turns out.
Mind you, shielding in Sunrider wasn't a thing in the demo but it will be in the next release. in Sunrider shields do more than just protect the unit that creates it. most shielded units will also protect nearby units against laser type weapons.
I understand this might give you the feeling there will be flak and shields everywhere but in actually most units won't have either, making for a lot of strategic decision making in where you move your ships.

'armor' also wasn't much of a concept in the demo, but in he next release it will reduce all damage taken by a relatively low amount but it's very effective against kinetics. most ships don't have particularly heavy armor though, but the Sunrider has a moderate amount. protip: don't rush headlong into a battleship thinking your guns will win the day :)
also, armor will be a bit special in that it's effect will be reduced as a ship loses HP. this means that even a big highly armored battleship can be finished off with Kinetics when it's low on HP.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 07:55:13 am by Vaendryl »
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