Poll

How do you like the pre-demo? (5 highest, 1 lowest)

5
2 (15.4%)
4
2 (15.4%)
3
7 (53.8%)
2
2 (15.4%)
1
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Author Topic: Demo Feedback  (Read 3105 times)

Offline Helrouis

Demo Feedback
« on: June 04, 2015, 01:36:28 am »
If you have tried the public demo (http://store.steampowered.com/app/379030), let us know your thoughts about it by simply voting here.

You can also write your honest opinion about the battle system or the visual novel presentation if you do have the time to write about it.

We aim to minimize as many imperfections as we have and implement features that may be of help making the game better. The demo will be constantly updated until the entire common route is finished.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 01:23:18 pm by Helrouis »
[email protected]InnoMen Productions
Web/Game Developer
2D Illustrator/3D Modeler
"Fortuna Audaces Iuvat"

Offline Marx-93

Re: Demo Feedback
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2015, 09:52:23 pm »
Well, as Youko already has created a thread focused on the writing, I'll post my impressions on the gameplay and interface here. Now, I said before that the gameplay has a lot of promise, but with the demo I have to say it still requires a fair lot of polish, so I won't hold back:

(Note: this is 0.095 on Steam, played the day before-yesterday)

Interface:
  • Firts, a major problem is that when I try to save in the middle of dialogue it will always go forward 2 times (as If I clicked the on the text 2 times), first when clicking the save icon, and after when confirming it. This is a very major annoyance, and the thing that currently bothers me most of the interface. It makes you skip text, distracts and is bothersome. On the rest of the saving system is very solid. Solve that problem, maybe increase the number of slots seen (up to 10, like Majikoi?) and we'll have a very solid save system
  • The backlog is very small. It barely has 7 to 8 lines, which is a very low amount that makes it almost useless. Not only that, reading it is fairly cumbersome as the screen seems only able to hold to 2-3 lines, which means you have to roll a lot, and the interface is not the best for it. Also, while you enter this mode with a right click on the mouse, you don't exit it like that (as in most VNs). A little thing, but it would speed the process a fair lot.
  • Aside from that, the idea of the menu is good, and if that thing is solved (I'm sorry, but I can't call it a proper backlog) it could be fairly cool. I however had a small feeling that it was kinda laggy
  • On the overworld, I know that you're not finished implementation, but I have to say: all the menus were horribly slow, some did weird things (on the weapons I had to click twice and sometime it did a weird thing of partially coloring the icon while not discoloring the other, meaning that I had to click again to select it "properly") and also everything regarding the pause and x2 speed was horribly laggy. Also, you couldn't open a menu in pause, you had to return to x2 speed for it to open (it was weird)

And now, on the combat. Here things are meaty:

  • First, while the idea of the different zoom levels is interesting, on practice the closest one doesn't let you seen anything, so you'll instantly go to the farther camera. One of the main problems however is that with the farther camera you can't really see what the Sierra is exactly doing (if it's firing, against whom, etc), which brings me to the first problem: weapon's range. There needs to be either some kind of indication or at least tooltip or something to tell us the damm ranges of the weapon. Just nearing until the enemy goes boom is not correct.
  • Related with this last point, recharge. In the midst of a battle, juggling your drones and trying to see what happens while still looking for other enemies that may come, you shouldn't have to expressly switch to the weapons console to see that the reason your ship is doing nothing is because it's recharging. When a weapon is recharging there needs to be some kind of icon indicating that. It doesn't help that neither the range nor even the selection (I'll talk about it later) is clear, so you're left with wondering what the heck happens until you switch to the weapons console and select the appropriate number. Either some kind of visual indication or tooltip in the weapon console would also be needed to tell you how many time it requires to reload. That way, you can calmly see that X weapon is reloading, and calmly look for it in the weapon console if it's important.
  • The selection. You can double click on an enemy to attack it directly instead of letting your weapons autotarget. The issue comes that you have no way to know when that works, no confirmation. It sounds silly, until you remember the points above, and realize that a lot of times you simply double click on the enemy and wait... and the Sierra does nothing. Has the order not worked? Or it's outside range? Or are the weapons reloading? Or could it be that the weapons are firing but because I'm in the farthest camera I can't see it and the reason the enemy health isn't lowering is another? A thousand of possibilities spruce up, and in an RTS 3 seconds are a lot of time. Almost all RTS games use a small voice-clip confirmation for a reason, and when you're targeting the enemy here it would be the perfect use. If you can't edit some of the original voices for that, simply use a blip or some other thing.
  • The idea of toggling the shield on and of is good. But with only the visual representation right now some times is hard to recognize if it's deployed or not in a second (and as I said, in an RTS seconds are important). I would recommend using radically different colors on the figure if it's deployed or not instead of different shades of blue, or maybe even a small icon somewhere. More than once I have maintained the shield when I didn't need it or vice-versa simply due to not realizing I had it on/off
  • When targeting an enemy ship, all your weapons attack it even if it's not in their autotarget selection. That however is critical for antiair fire against drones. Antiair-fire is effective, but kind of slow, and it focusing on the ship instead of the nearby drones is a sure-way to disaster. Some more tweakings on that should be done (this entire problem strikes me as weird, but it happened to me, so i don't know if I made some mistake or your orders really override the selected targets instead of simply prioritizing one)
  • Also, while there is no drones tutorial nor anything, they're available on the fights in the overwold, so I can say they are very buggy. Sometimes they simply went somewhere and exited the combat without doing anything, other times time they did some turns on some random corner until they finally exited the combat, and other times they launched well at the enemy (though I didn't see any fight between drones, I suppose that's normal)

Also, I have to ask, it's still possible to pause the game in the battle? In the test demo you could, but I forgot which letter did it and the tutorial didn't say it too.


As a final note, the battle system right now is fun, and has a lot of promise. It just needs it's fair share of tweaking. I hope this helps.
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home

Online Arraxis

Re: Demo Feedback
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2015, 11:27:12 pm »
I'll second what Marx has said - I've raised a few of those issues myself elsewhere, so I'll repost them here so you don't need to hunt for them. They're from an older version but they still sound relevant - let me know what's been fixed so I can cross them off. I don't recall issues with menu speed, but I imagine that that's something that'll vary across computers and people.


1. The zoom. Every battle you start super zoomed in, so you'll have to zoom out. It would be nice if the game started the camera further out so you could actually see something other than the Sierra.

2. The background. You can really notice this in the simulation, but when you move the camera, the background moves in a strange way. It moves at a different speed to the actual speed of your scrolling, and doesn't cover the entire map so it stops early. It also seems to be based partly on your zoom level. It's kind of disoriented, so it'd be appreciated if you could fix this.

3. Ship handling. The Sierra handles like a brick. I've got no issue with this since you're a huge capital ship and I expect that you're meant to power the engines more than I do - I like shields and weapons. However, there are some bugs with the controls that can prevent you from moving anywhere if you attempt to rotate the ship in the middle of moving and don't complete the rotation. It can be fixed by completing a rotation, but it should definitely be fixed in the next build.

4. Point Defence. I know Hel's received a lot of complaints about this already (and isn't responsible for it), but I said I was going to cover everything I can. It doesn't work as intended. I would describe it as a chainsaw in its current form. Short range, unwieldy, but tears into things and keeps going. If you target enemy capital ships with it and close in, they will melt in a few seconds. On the other hand, it doesn't seem to be very good at targeting fighters. They just don't track fast enough or do enough damage to them.
EDIT - apparently no longer OP against large ships, but perhaps still not good enough versus fighters.

5. Shields. I understand that they're meant to charge faster when not activated. However, it seems that they don't recharge at all in the interim between fights. Also, I would like it if the graphic for them remained instead of vanishing after a time. Given that you'll be reactivating and deactivating them a lot over the course of a fight, you'll want as much visual cues as possible. Also, maybe change their activate icon from blue and yellow to blue and red? Red is a more clear indicator that they've been turned off.

6. Power management. The sliders seem to be a little fiddly and it's a little hard to select them and move them up and down. Also, I would like to see you being able to save their arrangement so you don't have to set your settings every single time. That leads me in to my next point:

7. Weapon groupings. The button for that doesn't work, so I hope that will be fixed up soon.

8. Weapon modification. This was a nice screen to see, but it can be made more user friendly. When you click the drop down menu for the different options, it would be nice if when you highlighted something it would show you the changes that it will do. For example, if something increased the damage by 5, you could see the damage section of it displayed as 20 - +5 or something along those lines. As is, you have to really pay attention to see what changes each mod does, and it can be difficult to see with the current way things are done.

9. Save games. The current way of doing it means that if you're like me and save a lot, it will be hard to scroll quickly between them. Perhaps a separate menu would be more appropriate, with 10 or so slots on each page, instead of having it pop up on the side and only displaying 5 at a time as it scrolls

10. Speaking of scrolling, the scroll bar for your ally description is wrong! It goes to the side, but it should be vertical. This is just plain awkward and unintuitive.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 02:18:01 pm by Arraxis »

Offline Marx-93

Re: Demo Feedback
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 10:01:31 pm »
On the version I played there was no issue 4. Actually, the combats ended in a slug fest, as your cannons ended without ammunition in a second, and needed an eternity to reload, so only the point defense guns fired most of the times, and they barely scratched the enemy. On the other hand they continue being slow against fighters (or have the problem of directly ignoring them sometimes).

And my main problem with the menu speed was the weapons menu. Now I'm thinking that it just was very buggy instead of slow.
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home

Offline Kemeo

Re: Demo Feedback
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2015, 05:59:15 am »
Can someone help me with the CIWS(point def gun) problem. As far as I'am concern the current settings are working near perfectly (I said near because I did tweak the bullets to be faster and increased the lead aim).

The idea of the CIWS was to be a spray and pray weapon, the turret rotates near instantaneously (its faster than the drone velocity at least) and tries to aim the lead up position of the target (usually the front of the target). In the missiles/rockets case the weapon would almost always 100% hit its target since projectiles travels in a straight line, not so with a drone where a sudden turn can cause the lead aim to effectively miss.

With that said what aspect of the weapon should I actually improved on, without effectively making the drones moot? (do you think the drones are actually a threat btw?) Keep in mind that its an early game weapon.

Also how exactly did you noticed the problem, was it because the drones don't die that quick? Or was it because they hit like a truck despite being low in numbers. At the current setting the drones will die in about 5 shots from the CIWS.

P.S. Other concerns regarding the battle system have mostly been addressed we added attack-lines and range indicators to weapon groups as well and I'll be working with our UI guy for the reload indicators.

Offline Marx-93

Re: Demo Feedback
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2015, 08:04:35 am »
Can someone help me with the CIWS(point def gun) problem. As far as I'am concern the current settings are working near perfectly (I said near because I did tweak the bullets to be faster and increased the lead aim).

The idea of the CIWS was to be a spray and pray weapon, the turret rotates near instantaneously (its faster than the drone velocity at least) and tries to aim the lead up position of the target (usually the front of the target). In the missiles/rockets case the weapon would almost always 100% hit its target since projectiles travels in a straight line, not so with a drone where a sudden turn can cause the lead aim to effectively miss.

With that said what aspect of the weapon should I actually improved on, without effectively making the drones moot? (do you think the drones are actually a threat btw?) Keep in mind that its an early game weapon.

Also how exactly did you noticed the problem, was it because the drones don't die that quick? Or was it because they hit like a truck despite being low in numbers. At the current setting the drones will die in about 5 shots from the CIWS.

P.S. Other concerns regarding the battle system have mostly been addressed we added attack-lines and range indicators to weapon groups as well and I'll be working with our UI guy for the reload indicators.

The problem I had with the current CIWS is not that they won't work. Actually, when they shot drones they work very well, such as the first tutorial. The problem I had is that somehow they didn't shoot drones most of the times. I don't know how it worked, but when I actually targeted a frigate, the CIWS would aim at it and mostly forget about drones until they would come to its front (despite the fact that their weapon grouping didn't have frigates as possible enemy targets). It's mostly a priority thing; as they're firing at something different, they take their time (it helps that a lot of time they spend their munitions shooting uselessly at the big ship instead and are reloading). I want to know how to fix the "firing at something different" part, or at least manage to get some for emergencies.

And drones, while not as dangerous as in the battle test, still remain a small danger, mostly because they can come from anywhere, and hurt. That or the frigates have CIWS that are far better than the Sierra, because the second I turned the shield off the armour was lowered at a continuous rate (indicating continuous fire) a lot faster than the enemy frigates. I may be misunderstanding something.
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home

Offline Kemeo

Re: Demo Feedback
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2015, 09:47:36 am »
I don't know how it worked, but when I actually targeted a frigate, the CIWS would aim at it and mostly forget about drones until they would come to its front (despite the fact that their weapon grouping didn't have frigates as possible enemy targets).

Did you try to focus fire the frigate?(based on what you said I think you did) it probably had overridden the targeting system into frigate. Focus fire is kinda like forget every thing and just fire this target with this weapon group. If the target type for frigate did not turn on, its probably a left over bug. After the frigate is destroyed, the weapon will try to reacquire a new target randomly depending on the type set.

because the second I turned the shield off the armour was lowered at a continuous rate (indicating continuous fire) a lot faster than the enemy frigates.

If the text is in red it does not inflict damage.

On another topic should I upload a separate battle only build? To quickly test the battle systems. if there is interest that is.



Offline Marx-93

Re: Demo Feedback
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2015, 11:22:17 am »
Was double left click focus fire? It it is then it's like that. In that case however there should be some kind of "normal" attack button so you can focus fire on a target but only with the weapons selected to target that type of enemy. It's a good strategy to focus fire on one frigate out of 3, but if doing so means your CIWS do not defend you of the enemy drones then some other way is needed.

On another note, I never saw any text in red. Where it should appear?

An on the build, I would at least test it, but I don't know others.
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home

Offline Kemeo

Re: Demo Feedback
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2015, 03:17:33 pm »
Yep double left click is focus fire, and it should actually only function for the current selected weapon's group. If you happen to be in the rocket launchers group and the CIWS also focused fire on the frigate then that probably is a bug. (In the demo's case group 2, the one with 2 weapons only is the default rocket launcher group for Sierra)

It's a good strategy to focus fire on one frigate out of 3, but if doing so means your CIWS do not defend you of the enemy drones then some other way is needed.

On the current build you actually now have the ability to assign a target via right clicking the enemy(movement method), its functionally similar to normal rts games, and the selected ship will actually try and chase its target. Also all weapons not assigned to drones or projectiles will be use to "focus fire" the designated target, wonder if that works?

On the build part I'll probably upload one and post it on another topic like with what Youko did, so as to sort them out better.

Offline NEET Detective

Re: Demo Feedback
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2016, 05:10:17 am »
It's gives me hope about this game to see how seriously the developers consider the community's feedback. I Doubt I can say anything constructive but, keep up the good work. <3
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