Author Topic: Post your score in the demo!  (Read 7509 times)

Offline Ledabot

Post your score in the demo!
« on: March 06, 2014, 08:37:43 am »
I don't really know if this is a thing, but since I want an excuse to play the demo again (Yea, I like this game), I though it would be cool to try and get better scores. This thread is to post your best play through.

Since I only played it once before, I think my score might suck a bit. I played on normal, so I don't know if their are multiplers or not for hard, but I think I did pretty good. My score was 885... I think.

What did you get.... If you can remember?

Offline mikebrand83

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2014, 10:03:49 am »
Based on a couple of my old comments on the project page (both on Hard difficulty)...

1st Battle: link
5 turns, 267 command points

2nd Battle: link
6 turns, 874 command points


EDIT:
BTW, after doing a quick demo play through of the 1st battle on "Novel Mode" difficulty, it shows the score is calculated this way:

3 Frigates destroyed = 50 * 3
= $$150 earned

($$150 earn * 10) - 122 total damage taken = [1378]
[1378] / 4 turns taken
= 344 command points
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 10:14:00 am by mikebrand83 »

Offline Sne-tigerv2

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2014, 11:27:33 am »
I used 5 turns took zero damage so
($$150 earn * 10)-0=1500
1500/5=300
this was in hard mode
(LiS remove the feature that you can save in combat, you can exploit it as i just did)
which gave me a close to perfect score
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Offline mikebrand83

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2014, 11:51:34 am »
(LiS remove the feature that you can save in combat, you can exploit it as i just did)
which gave me a close to perfect score
Hmmm, good point.

IIRC, once you start a battle on a certain difficulty, that does seem to be locked in, even if you try to change it afterwards in battle... Perhaps the save game function should also save the random number seeds for that turn, so actions with certain success rates would be similarly locked in too.

For example, if it's already calculated that your missile attack on an enemy 5 spaces away is going to hit, but will lose 30% effectiveness due to PD fire, that gets saved too. So no matter how often you reload that saved game, if you're using the same missile attack on that same enemy, it's still going to hit every time while losing 30% effectiveness every time.

Offline Lost Engineer

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2014, 01:51:41 pm »
1165CP and 730$$ total. And yes, I cheated. :)

Perhaps the save game function should also save the random number seeds for that turn, so actions with certain success rates would be similarly locked in too.

For example, if it's already calculated that your missile attack on an enemy 5 spaces away is going to hit, but will lose 30% effectiveness due to PD fire, that gets saved too. So no matter how often you reload that saved game, if you're using the same missile attack on that same enemy, it's still going to hit every time while losing 30% effectiveness every time.

That still leaves much room for manipulation, though (try out all attack types and find the strongest that hits, else use the turn to move  - or a different approach depending on the exact way things work). Unless the battles get really long perhaps disabling saves would be the way to go, with autosaves immediately before and after each battle (long battles might also warrant a save somewhere in the middle).

On the other hand, if people feel like cheating, perhaps one should let them? PyTom (creator of this game's engine) used to say one should trust people to play a game the way they themselves find most enjoyable. Although there are going to be challenge mode bosses that are supposed to be hard (for bragging rights etc.), and it'd be kind of sad to see them undermined by something like this.

If it was me, I'd be keeping track of people's abuse of save reloading in the background: sum up RNG values that favor the player and subtract the ones that favor the AI - the value of the resulting variable grows the more the player cheats in this manner. Then I'd make one of the challenge bosses an improbable eldritch abomination which relied on this variable for damage reduction, so you'd need a playthrough (of a game+ at least) without save abuse if you wanted to beat that boss. Though that'd be somewhat questionable game design, so don't take this as a serious suggestion. :)

Offline mikebrand83

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2014, 02:18:25 pm »
That still leaves much room for manipulation, though (try out all attack types and find the strongest that hits, else use the turn to move  - or a different approach depending on the exact way things work). Unless the battles get really long perhaps disabling saves would be the way to go, with autosaves immediately before and after each battle (long battles might also warrant a save somewhere in the middle).

On the other hand, if people feel like cheating, perhaps one should let them? PyTom (creator of this game's engine) used to say one should trust people to play a game the way they themselves find most enjoyable. Although there are going to be challenge mode bosses that are supposed to be hard (for bragging rights etc.), and it'd be kind of sad to see them undermined by something like this.
Going by the demo, even with optimisations of battle animations that would go into the actual game since then, I still believe that the battles will normally go for long enough that just saving random number seeds should probably be enough of a deterrent to prevent excessive abuse of Save/Load in-battle, without punishing those who do want to experiment with different tactics without having to restart the battle every time.

Besides, for those who want the masochistic pleasure and/or bragging rights where in-battle saving is disabled, don't forget about the $18k tier "Challenge Mode". ;)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 02:22:50 pm by mikebrand83 »

Offline Vaendryl

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2014, 03:14:45 pm »
I don't really have any intention to completely block saving in battle by default. especially later on a single battle could take you a while and you might want to save and quit. saving the seed also seems a lot more effort than it is worth. if people want to cheat, they're going to. the game will be easy to mod and VNmode difficulty will essentially be the same as an "I WIN" button anyway, with enemy ships having only 10% of their default hp so they nearly always die in a single hit.

now, if you're an advanced player who wants to challenge himself we can surely make options for you. hardcore ironman mode? if you want it in there I'll make it happen. as an option :)
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Offline mikebrand83

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2014, 03:28:42 pm »
if people want to cheat, they're going to.
There's that, true enough.

As it's not a multiplayer competitive game anyway, the more I think about it, the less it seems to really be worth wasting development time programming "anti-cheat" measures. If someone wants to cheat badly enough, even if you disable saving, they'd just use trainers, hack the game, or any number of other ways give themselves an advantage regardless.

Offline Ledabot

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2014, 12:39:37 am »
I really didn't expect a serious discussion on cheating in this thread. Cool.  ;D

I was thinking you could do something like in fire emblem where you only save outside battle or 'quicksave' inside similer to what has been discussed, but it looks like this topic is resolved already.

Edit: after playing mission 1 again, I got  a great score of 276. I don't think their is meny ways to get better without cheating and I am rather interested in how to win this fight without taking damage. Could you share Sne-tigerv2?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 01:45:05 am by Ledabot »

Offline mikebrand83

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2014, 04:03:23 am »
Edit: after playing mission 1 again, I got  a great score of 276. I don't think their is meny ways to get better without cheating and I am rather interested in how to win this fight without taking damage. Could you share Sne-tigerv2?
The latest available version of the demo boosts laser accuracy, while reducing the enemy missile accuracy somewhat at longer ranges. You can finish in 5 turns by using missile first turn to destroy a frigate (you can use remaining EN to move back a column), then 1 laser shot per turn to take care of the other two frigates. Save/Load could probably allow you to keep trying until you win without any damage.

You can also semi-reliably finish in 4 turns, by using missiles first turn, use remaining EN to move closer. Then using next turn just to move closer again. Then with luck, 1 turn each with kinetics to destroy the 2 frigates.

Offline Ledabot

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2014, 02:23:00 pm »

You can also semi-reliably finish in 4 turns, by using missiles first turn, use remaining EN to move closer. Then using next turn just to move closer again. Then with luck, 1 turn each with kinetics to destroy the 2 frigates.

That is exactly how I got my score. I will also claim that I didn't cheat at all. I was lucky that I got some good hits in though.

Offline RyderMan065

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2014, 03:37:50 am »
I don't really have any intention to completely block saving in battle by default. especially later on a single battle could take you a while and you might want to save and quit. saving the seed also seems a lot more effort than it is worth. if people want to cheat, they're going to. the game will be easy to mod and VNmode difficulty will essentially be the same as an "I WIN" button anyway, with enemy ships having only 10% of their default hp so they nearly always die in a single hit.

now, if you're an advanced player who wants to challenge himself we can surely make options for you. hardcore ironman mode? if you want it in there I'll make it happen. as an option :)

I just noticed this now, but about that Ironman Mode, would it be possible to implement something like Fire Emblem's character perma-death, or would that effect the story mode far too much?

Offline Ledabot

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2014, 03:44:00 am »
I expect it would have quite and effect on the story. FE has 30+ characters. Sunrider has less than 10. Saying you filled up the sunriders rider bays, you could get 13 units total. We only have 7 or so girls though.

Offline Elvis Strunk

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2014, 04:38:41 am »
It could always be set up so that the characters die in battle, but not in the story. Basically, they show up for all the right events, you just can't use their unit anymore. I know some of the more important characters in Fire Emblem were basically like this, for example, everyone in Lyn's section of Fire Emblem, since they were all going to be important later.

Offline Lord Gorchnik

Re: Post your score in the demo!
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2014, 05:00:17 am »
Lord Gorchnik was quite enticed as he loaded up the first and second battle interim saves he made and had his servant activate Cheat Engine.  My servants were not able to find the values for CP or EN to make it so my unites had infinite EP or HP.  Then again their memory address searching skills are pathetic.

--kicks servant down the stairs--