Author Topic: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page  (Read 28611 times)

Offline Lord Gorchnik

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2014, 02:20:26 pm »
STUFF

Remember though that almost every wiki in existence is ran by the fans FOR the fans.  Not the creators.  Naturally if the original author, developer, composer, etc feels that information is being misconstrued then they are certainly able to get in touch with whoever owns said portal or site and have them make the necessary changes.  It's on the reason on the actual TVtropes.org website that they have a YMMV tab on every entry, otherwise people would be arguing about the authors "intent" of everything until the universe implodes.

Offline Samu-kun

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2014, 06:30:59 pm »
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So, Samu-kun, CG are real in-universe or a dramatic representation?! No, I'm still not getting the hint. If you don't answer, then I'll prepare a battery of questions that would leave even the best writer crying, even if I have to double-post! I'll probably do it anyway

I keep forgetting to answer this because I don't remember perfectly what's in the CGs. Even if a CG shows something though, it means that there can be other ships off camera. For example, when the Emerald Fleet arrives, it doesn't exclude other vessels in the fleet which were too far away to see, or which were off camera. (Same as when Porkchop's fleet arrives after the Sharr'Lac explodes.)

Offline Marx-93

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2014, 10:38:35 pm »
STUFF

Remember though that almost every wiki in existence is ran by the fans FOR the fans.  Not the creators.  Naturally if the original author, developer, composer, etc feels that information is being misconstrued then they are certainly able to get in touch with whoever owns said portal or site and have them make the necessary changes.  It's on the reason on the actual TVtropes.org website that they have a YMMV tab on every entry, otherwise people would be arguing about the authors "intent" of everything until the universe implodes.

I knew, but the true is that until I arrived half of the entries at the wiki were from Vaendryl. I was slightly afraid that the front page would be a sacred cow (considering it was the part that seemingly had more effort put into it) or something. But well, I suppose that if Samu-kun created this thread was precisely to get the responsibility of the wiki off his shoulders. I will try to not mess it up a lot.


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So, Samu-kun, CG are real in-universe or a dramatic representation?! No, I'm still not getting the hint. If you don't answer, then I'll prepare a battery of questions that would leave even the best writer crying, even if I have to double-post! I'll probably do it anyway

I keep forgetting to answer this because I don't remember perfectly what's in the CGs. Even if a CG shows something though, it means that there can be other ships off camera. For example, when the Emerald Fleet arrives, it doesn't exclude other vessels in the fleet which were too far away to see, or which were off camera. (Same as when Porkchop's fleet arrives after the Sharr'Lac explodes.)

First, sorry if I came across too forceful. Second, thanks because it was one of these little things that was poking in my brain annoying me. I understand that there are thing not included from the picture, but I was referring if you take into account such things as the numbers of ships on screen, or what type they are. It seems from your answer and another tidbits of information that you take scale and other details into account. But I was more referring to: In the emerald fleet scene appear at least 60 cruisers. If you put these together with the ones already there they have around 90 cruisers, while the initial number of 5 PACT fleets had around 80 cruisers. The idea here is, the emerald fleet has so many cruisers because it has them, or they while having many cruisers still have a lot of other ships and the image used for them is that of cruisers because we only have so many art budget?


Now, one question I had promised: I remember playing the game that Icari mentioned her parents dying 13 years ago. She later tells that she was 12 when that happened. From there I took the idea that Icari was 25 years old. However looking at the timeline, 13 years ago was 490, when PACT was still Compact and it didn't have that much power. I simply remembered bad these 13 years, or is there something more? (or the timeline is a clutter an the now isn't in 503, or something else?)

And to finish, the stupid question of the day: Why are the lower decks of the Sunrider called deck 2 and 1? Normally in ships the higher level decks are called higher numbers. I know that in space high or low doesn't make any sense, but still, why? Is it because the hangars are considered equivalents of the flight deck and do "higher"? But then the Sunrider seems to have a place from where to eject Ryders on the part nearer the centre. It is mystery for me...
You don't need to answer the last one
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

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Offline Samu-kun

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2014, 11:14:19 pm »
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Now, one question I had promised: I remember playing the game that Icari mentioned her parents dying 13 years ago. She later tells that she was 12 when that happened. From there I took the idea that Icari was 25 years old. However looking at the timeline, 13 years ago was 490, when PACT was still Compact and it didn't have that much power. I simply remembered bad these 13 years, or is there something more? (or the timeline is a clutter an the now isn't in 503, or something else?)
Most people don't really appreciate the difference between Compact and PACT. They're functionally the same thing, just treated different under intergalactic law. By Icari's time, the Compact had already become PACT and Icari's not exactly someone who cares about the finer points of intergalactic law, so she just refers to everything as PACT.

By 490, the Compact had defacto control over many New Empire worlds and ongoing rebellions on virtually every world. The only world which was safe was New Eden, and even that was sacked just four years after.

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First, sorry if I came across too forceful. Second, thanks because it was one of these little things that was poking in my brain annoying me. I understand that there are thing not included from the picture, but I was referring if you take into account such things as the numbers of ships on screen, or what type they are. It seems from your answer and another tidbits of information that you take scale and other details into account. But I was more referring to: In the emerald fleet scene appear at least 60 cruisers. If you put these together with the ones already there they have around 90 cruisers, while the initial number of 5 PACT fleets had around 80 cruisers. The idea here is, the emerald fleet has so many cruisers because it has them, or they while having many cruisers still have a lot of other ships and the image used for them is that of cruisers because we only have so many art budget?
I'm pretty sure the First Fleet had 200 cruisers. (Technically, they are battle cruisers, but oh well...) There's only so many ships you can show on camera though. There were many more smaller support vessels as well, but they were off camera and not very important in the battle. (Ships have to carry supplies, spare parts, munitions, hospital ships, etc, etc)

I'm pretty sure the 5 PACT fleets combined had many more than 80 cruisers. Probably more like 500, split into two fleets. They're just off camera. The cruisers couldn't play a big role in the battle because Cullen warped them out too far, so they didn't get into weapons range until most of PACT's battleships and carriers were already destroyed.

Offline Lord Gorchnik

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2014, 03:58:58 am »
Most people don't really appreciate the difference between Compact and PACT. They're functionally the same thing, just treated different under intergalactic law. By Icari's time, the Compact had already become PACT and Icari's not exactly someone who cares about the finer points of intergalactic law, so she just refers to everything as PACT.

By 490, the Compact had defacto control over many New Empire worlds and ongoing rebellions on virtually every world. The only world which was safe was New Eden, and even that was sacked just four years after.

I'm pretty sure the First Fleet had 200 cruisers. (Technically, they are battle cruisers, but oh well...) There's only so many ships you can show on camera though. There were many more smaller support vessels as well, but they were off camera and not very important in the battle. (Ships have to carry supplies, spare parts, munitions, hospital ships, etc, etc)

I'm pretty sure the 5 PACT fleets combined had many more than 80 cruisers. Probably more like 500, split into two fleets. They're just off camera. The cruisers couldn't play a big role in the battle because Cullen warped them out too far, so they didn't get into weapons range until most of PACT's battleships and carriers were already destroyed.

So much backstory.  In fact theres so much Gorchnik smells the next big thing!

Coming soon: Sunrider: The Visual Novel: The Game: The Novel of the Game of the Visual-Novel. Authored by Samu-shamu with forward by Lord Gorchnik.

Offline Marx-93

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2014, 09:14:49 am »
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First, sorry if I came across too forceful. Second, thanks because it was one of these little things that was poking in my brain annoying me. I understand that there are thing not included from the picture, but I was referring if you take into account such things as the numbers of ships on screen, or what type they are. It seems from your answer and another tidbits of information that you take scale and other details into account. But I was more referring to: In the emerald fleet scene appear at least 60 cruisers. If you put these together with the ones already there they have around 90 cruisers, while the initial number of 5 PACT fleets had around 80 cruisers. The idea here is, the emerald fleet has so many cruisers because it has them, or they while having many cruisers still have a lot of other ships and the image used for them is that of cruisers because we only have so many art budget?
I'm pretty sure the First Fleet had 200 cruisers. (Technically, they are battle cruisers, but oh well...) There's only so many ships you can show on camera though. There were many more smaller support vessels as well, but they were off camera and not very important in the battle. (Ships have to carry supplies, spare parts, munitions, hospital ships, etc, etc)

I'm pretty sure the 5 PACT fleets combined had many more than 80 cruisers. Probably more like 500, split into two fleets. They're just off camera. The cruisers couldn't play a big role in the battle because Cullen warped them out too far, so they didn't get into weapons range until most of PACT's battleships and carriers were already destroyed.

Straight from Admiral Grey lines:“All together I predict at least seven battleships, six carriers, eighty cruisers, and over four hundred support vessels” This was when they thought that PACT only numbered 500 instead of 600,  but, well...

Still, this is very interesting, because I thought that when they talked about numbers they included the support ships (which tend to outnumber the combat fleet significantly as you say), but it seems that they aren't counted. Going to be important for people who play the numbers game (and about battle cruisers, could you please expand a little? they are simply more heavily armed cruisers like IRL, or something different? This could explain the differences between alliance cruisers and the PACT ones...).

Quote
Now, one question I had promised: I remember playing the game that Icari mentioned her parents dying 13 years ago. She later tells that she was 12 when that happened. From there I took the idea that Icari was 25 years old. However looking at the timeline, 13 years ago was 490, when PACT was still Compact and it didn't have that much power. I simply remembered bad these 13 years, or is there something more? (or the timeline is a clutter an the now isn't in 503, or something else?)
Most people don't really appreciate the difference between Compact and PACT. They're functionally the same thing, just treated different under intergalactic law. By Icari's time, the Compact had already become PACT and Icari's not exactly someone who cares about the finer points of intergalactic law, so she just refers to everything as PACT.

By 490, the Compact had defacto control over many New Empire worlds and ongoing rebellions on virtually every world. The only world which was safe was New Eden, and even that was sacked just four years after.


Very, very interesting. I thought that the Compact had a lot of power and influence, but was mainly underground (like the talibans in Afghanistan, in that they factually control a lot but are "hidden") until Arcadius arrived. I suppose then, that when you explained that Arcadius started liberating worlds and the Empire couldn't do anything you were talking about the core worlds? (and the Empire couldn't do anything because they had only a bit of territory and had to protect New Eden) Still, then the craft of Icari was intercepted because the Compact had very similar rules to the modern PACT (restriction on space travel) or because they thought of them as coming from the New Empire? Things are starting to get complicated and I love it.


So much backstory.  In fact theres so much Gorchnik smells the next big thing!

Coming soon: Sunrider: The Visual Novel: The Game: The Novel of the Game of the Visual-Novel. Authored by Samu-shamu with forward by Lord Gorchnik.

I admit that I'm doubting over the cards, but I would buy that so much it's not even funny.
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home

Offline Megillot

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2014, 07:20:45 pm »
There were many more smaller support vessels as well, but they were off camera and not very important in the battle. (Ships have to carry supplies, spare parts, munitions, hospital ships, etc, etc)

Ships you describe shouldn't be anywhere near battle.
When Grey and others mentioned support ships, I always assumed it were smaller warships: frigates, corvettes, destroyers or light cruisers - too lightly armed to deal serious damage to cruisers or battleships, but useful for reconnaissance and protecting main forces from missiles and ryders.

But perhaps I'm just stupid for arguing with the lead writer.

Offline Deathwatch

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2014, 08:32:41 pm »
One thing i notice is the lack of mentioning of mercenaries, i would expect there would be some mercs around.

Merc's are in some way similar to pirates just don't rob people as much as pirates do.

Also the Alliance fleet wouldn't need as many support ships as they weren't there to attack a planet, meaning they can if nessassary syphon supplies from the planet after the battle.

Also i take it space fighter aircraft where decommissioned ? or are there still nippy fighters that aren't mecha.

Offline Marx-93

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2014, 10:09:07 pm »
So, it appears we have been ignored by Samu-kun maybe inadvertently we found a plot hole. Ejem

Since this next week I will be slightly busy, and from 10 to 15 of August I will simply be disconnected, I ask for help to anyone who knows how to access the code for exact data of the enemy ships attacks. I personally want to create pages for enemy ships with all the data, so if someone could give me or explain how to get that information I would thank him. I plan to finish this phase 2 of the wiki by the 10, so a quick response would be better but I'm not picky.

I also I'm thinking about making a thread talking about the likely PACT military doctrine, but that is something very wiki-like, so maybe I should put my rant deductions here?
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home

Offline Vaendryl

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2014, 10:49:02 pm »
So, it appears we have been ignored by Samu-kun maybe inadvertently we found a plot hole. Ejem
Sam's been really busy because of the impending release of 5.0. I kind of lost track of the discussion though. what plot hole misunderstanding specifically are you referring to?

Quote
Since this next week I will be slightly busy, and from 10 to 15 of August I will simply be disconnected, I ask for help to anyone who knows how to access the code for exact data of the enemy ships attacks. I personally want to create pages for enemy ships with all the data, so if someone could give me or explain how to get that information I would thank him. I plan to finish this phase 2 of the wiki by the 10, so a quick response would be better but I'm not picky.
in the game folder you can open the 'library.rpy' file with a text editor (I recommend anything other than notepad, really) and you will be able to find all the details about all the ships and all the weapons you might want. although it's in code, I've tried to keep it fairly readable. if you look through it for a bit things should start to make sense soon enough
(╯°□°)╯︵ uoıʇdǝɔxǝ
latest version: 7.2
RTFW
Mark 5:9

Offline Marx-93

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2014, 06:36:00 am »
So, it appears we have been ignored by Samu-kun maybe inadvertently we found a plot hole. Ejem
Sam's been really busy because of the impending release of 5.0. I kind of lost track of the discussion though. what plot hole misunderstanding specifically are you referring to?

Quote
Since this next week I will be slightly busy, and from 10 to 15 of August I will simply be disconnected, I ask for help to anyone who knows how to access the code for exact data of the enemy ships attacks. I personally want to create pages for enemy ships with all the data, so if someone could give me or explain how to get that information I would thank him. I plan to finish this phase 2 of the wiki by the 10, so a quick response would be better but I'm not picky.
in the game folder you can open the 'library.rpy' file with a text editor (I recommend anything other than notepad, really) and you will be able to find all the details about all the ships and all the weapons you might want. although it's in code, I've tried to keep it fairly readable. if you look through it for a bit things should start to make sense soon enough

The plot holish thing we were talking about is a simple numbers game. Concretely Samu-kun talked about fleets as if they number is composed mainly of cruisers (70-80%), while this openly contradicts Admiral Grey's predictions of 80 cruisers per 500 ships. It is nothing more than a numbers game, so i suppose Samu thought: "I will look at it later" and being busy and everything forgot I don't mind, but since I saw Samu-kun in a lot of various threads and something i thought that precisely because you are near release he got more free time to herd the fandom.

Thanks about the code. I programmed a little but never with Ren'py (seems similar to Python, though?) so I was afraid to mess something up. I suppose there are no spoiler around the code?(like our Lord I also kinda prefer to not know which option gives "more points" in a first playthrough, so are the VN part and the combat part slightly separated?)
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home

Offline Vaendryl

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2014, 07:54:16 am »

The plot holish thing we were talking about is a simple numbers game. Concretely Samu-kun talked about fleets as if they number is composed mainly of cruisers (70-80%), while this openly contradicts Admiral Grey's predictions of 80 cruisers per 500 ships. It is nothing more than a numbers game, so i suppose Samu thought: "I will look at it later" and being busy and everything forgot I don't mind, but since I saw Samu-kun in a lot of various threads and something i thought that precisely because you are near release he got more free time to herd the fandom.
I'd say it's only a plot hole when the game internally is not consistent. Sam can troll you on the forum as much as he wants :D

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Thanks about the code. I programmed a little but never with Ren'py (seems similar to Python, though?) so I was afraid to mess something up. I suppose there are no spoiler around the code?(like our Lord I also kinda prefer to not know which option gives "more points" in a first playthrough, so are the VN part and the combat part slightly separated?)
absolutely similar to python! the 'py' in ren'py  stands for python! all of ren'py is built on the foundations of pygame and you can use pygame itself to improve the game, which is something I'm taking advantage off a lot more in 5.0. you already see this in 4.x when you use the short range warp order - a small ghost sunrider is stuck to your cursor thanks to using pygame directly.

the story is contained within script.rpy, which includes things like affection ratings and other hidden stuff like that. the combat engine consists mostly of classes.rpy, functions.rpy, screens customs.rpy, combatlabels,rpy and library.rpy. the rest of the files are for animation and some other odds and ends.
(╯°□°)╯︵ uoıʇdǝɔxǝ
latest version: 7.2
RTFW
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Offline Marx-93

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2014, 09:28:08 am »

The plot holish thing we were talking about is a simple numbers game. Concretely Samu-kun talked about fleets as if they number is composed mainly of cruisers (70-80%), while this openly contradicts Admiral Grey's predictions of 80 cruisers per 500 ships. It is nothing more than a numbers game, so i suppose Samu thought: "I will look at it later" and being busy and everything forgot I don't mind, but since I saw Samu-kun in a lot of various threads and something i thought that precisely because you are near release he got more free time to herd the fandom.
I'd say it's only a plot hole when the game internally is not consistent. Sam can troll you on the forum as much as he wants :D

So it was the famed Samu-kun's trolling... Now, I remember that the wiki page of Love in Space is almost empty, what should I put...

Quote
Thanks about the code. I programmed a little but never with Ren'py (seems similar to Python, though?) so I was afraid to mess something up. I suppose there are no spoiler around the code?(like our Lord I also kinda prefer to not know which option gives "more points" in a first playthrough, so are the VN part and the combat part slightly separated?)
absolutely similar to python! the 'py' in ren'py  stands for python! all of ren'py is built on the foundations of pygame and you can use pygame itself to improve the game, which is something I'm taking advantage off a lot more in 5.0. you already see this in 4.x when you use the short range warp order - a small ghost sunrider is stuck to your cursor thanks to using pygame directly.

the story is contained within script.rpy, which includes things like affection ratings and other hidden stuff like that. the combat engine consists mostly of classes.rpy, functions.rpy, screens customs.rpy, combatlabels,rpy and library.rpy. the rest of the files are for animation and some other odds and ends.

Looking at the code, and I found what I wanted, and a pair of secrets (didn't know that there was a base "hate" for every unit). I have to commend you, your coding is very clear and perfectly understandable (even the commentaries are short but clear). So this is the difference between a pro and others...
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home

Offline Vaendryl

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2014, 09:45:14 am »
Looking at the code, and I found what I wanted, and a pair of secrets (didn't know that there was a base "hate" for every unit). I have to commend you, your coding is very clear and perfectly understandable (even the commentaries are short but clear). So this is the difference between a pro and others...
thanks! makes me happy to hear that :D also good you found what you were looking for.

I'm actually not a pro at all lol. I didn't know jack shit about python or ren'py when I offered my help to Sam back during the original kickstarter  ;D
if you want to look at real pro code, you should take a look at the ren'py code itself. it's all there in plaintext .py files in the renpy folder. I'm always in continuous awe when I browse through that stuff...
(╯°□°)╯︵ uoıʇdǝɔxǝ
latest version: 7.2
RTFW
Mark 5:9

Offline Marx-93

Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2014, 10:26:18 pm »
And despite all that talk today I got nothing done. I want to justify it saying something, but well, I was just being lazy...


Looking at the code, and I found what I wanted, and a pair of secrets (didn't know that there was a base "hate" for every unit). I have to commend you, your coding is very clear and perfectly understandable (even the commentaries are short but clear). So this is the difference between a pro and others...
thanks! makes me happy to hear that :D also good you found what you were looking for.

I'm actually not a pro at all lol. I didn't know jack shit about python or ren'py when I offered my help to Sam back during the original kickstarter  ;D
if you want to look at real pro code, you should take a look at the ren'py code itself. it's all there in plaintext .py files in the renpy folder. I'm always in continuous awe when I browse through that stuff...

Anyone who works creating or improving libraries is on another level of pro for me. Don't sell yourself short, Vaendryl, a lot of times clarity is more important than efficiency. When I was learning (very) basic Java code, I made a series of basic program to calculate stuff. When a year later (after finishing) I was told to make a program to calculate some other stuff (for another subject), I remember thinking that taking the basic programs I made as a base I would finish quickly. I was almost one hour to understand what the hell I had done in my own programs, only a year later. And the average grade of my programs was a 9 of 10, so it wasn't that it was bad technically. I think that clarity and organization are very important when programming, as is also one of the few things that remain when you start working on another language.

Well that was my two cents, at least my impressions based on the (extremely) basic programming I did. And I think that I have derailed this thread. Again.
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home