Author Topic: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe  (Read 5983 times)

Offline mikebrand83

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2015, 03:36:00 am »
My $0.02:
If anything, Sunrider and Star Wars are kindred spirits, in that both generally follows the "Used Future" school of thought. Sure, there are the occasional bits of technobabble sprinkled into dialogue, plus the setting has groups and a few individual geniuses that create new technological innovations. But by and large, what we would consider almost impossibly advanced technology are pretty run-of-the-mill stuff to them, and virtually all terminology boils down to slang terms. So in Sunrider, people would simply call FTL travel "warp" because everyone already knows what "warp" is, they don't need it to be phrased as "Wormhole Actualization Retrogradient Propulsion", and the same applies to pretty much everything else (just like how we don't go on about blah-blah-blah-internal-combustion-blah-blah-wheeled-vehicle, just to describe a "car").

Spoiler
As an aside, "sound in space" is perhaps the most common complaint about Star Wars' realism... Yet it's something that actually has an in-universe explanation: At least inside ships, the "sounds" are actually created based on feedback from sensors, used to give crew members audio cues to improve their spatial awareness.

Neither of them are like Star Trek, where the series authors (especially from ST:NG onwards) seem to feel the need to make up some crazy Treknobabble for every little thing, like on the level of "Flaws in the quantum graviton polarity sources!" at least, just explain a blocked toilet.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 03:40:26 am by mikebrand83 »

Offline Megillot

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2015, 02:17:41 pm »
> Super high precision lasers.
> Cannot hit a battleship 11 hexes away.
Riiight.

Offline Pal

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2015, 06:27:38 am »
> Super high precision lasers.
> Cannot hit a battleship 11 hexes away.
Riiight.
Now don't go bringing a little thing like facts into this argument! :P

Heinrike [Nov 10, 2016, 11:00:11 am]: I'm bored too, but otherwise bored  Elvis Strunk [Dec 14, 2015, 01:43:59 AM]: Would make it easier to keep track of all the characters, at least. "They're all dead."
Eonymia [Dec 15, 2016, 10:14:17 pm]: Losers don't win, do drugs Arraxis [Feb 18, 2017, 03:12:47 am]: Slither me timbers

Offline Marx-93

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2015, 04:26:39 pm »
> Super high precision lasers.
> Cannot hit a battleship 11 hexes away.
Riiight.

Do we even know what 11 hexes means? I mean, most battles tend to be around a planets gravity well, and if that covers around the moon (like in Ryuvia prime) this means an average 400.000 km. Of course Samu-kun has not said anything because he knows that there will be inconsistencies. And it's not like anything else can hit it at that distance (And with the new buff they'll be able to hit).

And I'm repeating that there's an army, just not as important for plot reasons (for example, taking a piss is also important for life, but have we seen anyone taking a piss in Sunrider? no, because it doesn't matter to the plot). It does it job, and it's needed, but like you say you don't spend too much on it. What would improve more your quality of life, having someone bring you water fresh from the nearest mountain or having an improved personal computer that doesn't crash every 20 minutes? If you can have regular water, not spending much its okay.

And actually, laser diffraction by atmosphere is something easy to adjust, you'll lose some power but it's simply the matter of finding the wavelength with the least absorption (of course you'll also need to find one that it's also lethal to humans). I don't think that heat is also enough to severely damage anything in the atmosphere (we had a nuclear explosion of all things in our atmosphere and we felt nothing). And sincerely I didn't consider laser dispersion, but It probably can be easily adjusted: If you know your target is at a fixed distance it would be relatively simple to adjust the width of the original beam. From orbit to surface there are measly 10.000 km. Even then I'm talking of hits around 10 square meters, which is still a lot more precise and less ruthless than the mass bombing employed in WWII, and even "selective bombing" on modern targets.

Even then, supposing everything you say, it would still be enough to edge a battle in favour of an invasion group: military infrastructure and defences ruined, morale by the ground and the absolute knowledge that if you put too much resistance the enemy may decide to not even bother and nuke you from above. Weather may stave your offensive one day: in  planet with a case of very violent weather the army truly may be the key to winning, but it's only one planet, and giving that Sunrider's setting seems to have limited terraforming, that planet may be not worth it. And anything with a big shield becomes an instantly big target to your cannons above (blocking an entire city with shield and very heavy flak may give the invaders the dilemma of "trying to capture it or blast it", but that would me more the exception than the rule, and you'll need to get the citizens to agree to transform their city into a big fortress and target).

Star Wars

Actually, space fighters in Star wars are absolutely bad at being space fighters. Mech of any kind are fairly better at it than any space fighter with a remotely aerodynamic shape and without the hull full of thrusters. The design that can be remotely the closest to being remotely sensible it's the basic TIE fighter. Star Wars had the advantage of having and incredibly big following and an incredibly big expanded universe, all of it trying to rationalize and explain the universe. The movies by themselves are very inconsistent on the technology and everything else (Shielding works against ramming? does the laser even have different outputs or is the reason that some fighter can take one hit and other doesn't some kind of plot armour? Ion cannons in theory deactivate two star destroyers systems and shielding yet they aren't used for the rest of the war?). Which is fine, because it was a movie and they took stylistic choices over sensible ones. And it's totally okay and I loved it. But you can't apply the same situation of Star wars to Sunrider, even if only because here missiles and warheads are a thing, and both are in hands of the Space force (maybe the Army will have a share of their own).

(Oh, and the Ryder's bullet's come from the cartridges clearly hanging from their guns, they have spares and replace them after a number of Assaults)

My $0.02:
If anything, Sunrider and Star Wars are kindred spirits, in that both generally follows the "Used Future" school of thought. Sure, there are the occasional bits of technobabble sprinkled into dialogue, plus the setting has groups and a few individual geniuses that create new technological innovations. But by and large, what we would consider almost impossibly advanced technology are pretty run-of-the-mill stuff to them, and virtually all terminology boils down to slang terms. So in Sunrider, people would simply call FTL travel "warp" because everyone already knows what "warp" is, they don't need it to be phrased as "Wormhole Actualization Retrogradient Propulsion", and the same applies to pretty much everything else (just like how we don't go on about blah-blah-blah-internal-combustion-blah-blah-wheeled-vehicle, just to describe a "car").

Spoiler
As an aside, "sound in space" is perhaps the most common complaint about Star Wars' realism... Yet it's something that actually has an in-universe explanation: At least inside ships, the "sounds" are actually created based on feedback from sensors, used to give crew members audio cues to improve their spatial awareness.

Neither of them are like Star Trek, where the series authors (especially from ST:NG onwards) seem to feel the need to make up some crazy Treknobabble for every little thing, like on the level of "Flaws in the quantum graviton polarity sources!" at least, just explain a blocked toilet.

Mike, didn't we at least reach an agreement that Star Wars fighters were terribly bad at being in space? But yeah, that's the general gist, but even then I think both are very different in some things.

To be honest though Star wars is an strange case, because more than science fiction is more like fantasy with advanced technology. It's less fiction and more magic technologically named: lasers are short streams, we have proton warheads and ion cannon (I could give you a proton warhead filling a shell with acid, but i don't think it would explode). It tries to be consistent and it manages in its own way, but roughly anything is recognizable.

Sunrider is a normal space opera with advanced but recognizable technology. Then to add some cool factors it gives us Ryuvian technology, which like in Star Wars is basically consistent magic (Warps, shields generators, Ryders, etc). But most of the rest can be pieced together. There are fusion reactors, typical lasers, nuclear warheads and even the Vanguard cannon is nothing more than a pseudo-plasma railgun.


And that's it. We clearly have some difference in what we recognize as sensible in science fiction, and I think it's clear enough. We can either return to our old argument about the Army or leave it here, we've derailed this thread enough.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 04:30:45 pm by Marx-93 »
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

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Offline GreatWyrmGold

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2015, 12:17:09 pm »
Do we even know what 11 hexes means? I mean, most battles tend to be around a planets gravity well, and if that covers around the moon (like in Ryuvia prime) this means an average 400.000 km.
I'm curious as to where you got your numbers, and have some competing points.
1. Being one hex away is significantly different than being two hexes away, because the former means the enemy gets reaction fire and that you can melee attack while the latter means you can't do either. Likely related is that...
2. ...you can't stick two units in the same hex. This means both that two allied Ryders in the same hex would disrupt their combat ability somehow (possibly reducing their ability to dodge, although given that it's definitely at least most of a kilometer given the Sunrider's stated size that shouldn't matter much) and that even the smallest Ryders effectively control that much space, preventing enemies from getting through.
3. No tidal forces are observed, indicating that the battles either last extremely quickly or the ships involved are closely packed.
Thus, I propose that a tile in Sunrider is probably only a kilometer across, maybe a few.

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And I'm repeating that there's an army, just not as important for plot reasons (for example, taking a piss is also important for life, but have we seen anyone taking a piss in Sunrider? no, because it doesn't matter to the plot). It does it job, and it's needed, but like you say you don't spend too much on it.
Yes, but there's a difference between "The army is basically insignificant because who needs one?" (your original position) and "The army is important but we don't need to worry about it" (your current position).

Quote
What would improve more your quality of life, having someone bring you water fresh from the nearest mountain or having an improved personal computer that doesn't crash every 20 minutes? If you can have regular water, not spending much its okay.
The difference being that the latter is something that you expect from a computer (and I haven't had one disappoint me). Not to mention that, if the alternative was no water/computer, it would still be the first!

Quote
And actually, laser diffraction by atmosphere is something easy to adjust, you'll lose some power but it's simply the matter of finding the wavelength with the least absorption (of course you'll also need to find one that it's also lethal to humans).
Lasers aren't lethal because they're magical death beams; they're lethal because they transfer a large amount of thermal energy to the structure of our bodies, allowing them to react with free oxygen in the air in exothermic reactions which tend to be lethal once applied to large areas of flesh. Unless they just melt you.
In any case, a quick Google search suggests that about 20% of electromagnetic radiation is absorbed by the atmosphere and clouds, and that even under ideal conditions (including using visible light, which is the best for getting through an Earth-like atmosphere for reasons that should be obvious), it wouldn't drop below 5-10%. Now, if we had a figure for how much thermal energy it takes to kill an entire city/army, I could tell you how much you would be screwing everything up! Keep in mind that it's not just the immediate "atmosphere in immediate vicinity turns to plasma" thing (or whatever less extreme effect occurs), but also the heat dispersing into the area, lighting plants on fire, that stuff.

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I don't think that heat is also enough to severely damage anything in the atmosphere (we had a nuclear explosion of all things in our atmosphere and we felt nothing).
I imagine that if the nuclear explosion dispersed its heat right next to the ground, as some of the air the laser went through would be, we would be feeling it more.

Quote
And sincerely I didn't consider laser dispersion, but It probably can be easily adjusted: If you know your target is at a fixed distance it would be relatively simple to adjust the width of the original beam. From orbit to surface there are measly 10.000 km. Even then I'm talking of hits around 10 square meters, which is still a lot more precise and less ruthless than the mass bombing employed in WWII, and even "selective bombing" on modern targets.
...How much do you think they can adjust their beam width?

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Even then, supposing everything you say, it would still be enough to edge a battle in favour of an invasion group...
See, here's the thing: You were initially proposing that orbital bombardment could replace an invasion force. Obviously orbital support helps, just like air support does today--it's just not enough to win wars on its own.

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Actually, space fighters in Star wars are absolutely bad at being space fighters. Mech of any kind are fairly better at it than any space fighter with a remotely aerodynamic shape and without the hull full of thrusters. The design that can be remotely the closest to being remotely sensible it's the basic TIE fighter.
I disagree. Have you ever played Kerbal Space Program or watched someone play it? It's a pretty good simulation of relevant physics. Mechs are tricky for a number of reasons, ranging from their increased flexibility to the trickiness of making reaction control thrusters that precisely control rotation no matter what direction the limbs are pointing, without a single benefit. Many of the fighter designs are unusual, and seem better-suited for atmospheric combat than space combat, but they still work pretty well for space without being so...silly. Not to mention that Star Wars ships don't have those weird protrusions or freaking swords.

Quote
Star Wars had the advantage of having and incredibly big following and an incredibly big expanded universe, all of it trying to rationalize and explain the universe. The movies by themselves are very inconsistent on the technology and everything else (Shielding works against ramming? does the laser even have different outputs or is the reason that some fighter can take one hit and other doesn't some kind of plot armour? Ion cannons in theory deactivate two star destroyers systems and shielding yet they aren't used for the rest of the war?). Which is fine, because it was a movie and they took stylistic choices over sensible ones. And it's totally okay and I loved it. But you can't apply the same situation of Star wars to Sunrider, even if only because here missiles and warheads are a thing, and both are in hands of the Space force (maybe the Army will have a share of their own).
Why can't I? It's exactly the same. You have quantum torpedoes and mechs and stuff, and at least one fan trying to rationalize it all as being sensible.
Oh, and missiles and stuff are also a thing in Star Wars (I'd point out that stardestroyer.net covered them, except they're also mentioned in the movies), not that I'm sure how their absence would affect anything. Especially since I was recommending it for general tactics rather than specific ones.

[quote(Oh, and the Ryder's bullet's come from the cartridges clearly hanging from their guns, they have spares and replace them after a number of Assaults)[/quote]
So, you're saying that they have infinite cartridges but finite missiles? Seems legit.

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To be honest though Star wars is an strange case, because more than science fiction is more like fantasy with advanced technology.
magic Ryuvian technology
Mm-hm. Definitely not the same.

Quote
Sunrider is a normal space opera with advanced but recognizable technology. Then to add some cool factors it gives us Ryuvian technology, which like in Star Wars is basically consistent magic (Warps, shields generators, Ryders, etc). But most of the rest can be pieced together. There are fusion reactors, typical lasers, nuclear warheads and even the Vanguard cannon is nothing more than a pseudo-plasma railgun.
1. Star Wars is basically the original Space Opera. (I think Star Trek came first, but it wasn't popular until later.)
2. Star Wars has a lot of technology with as much in common with modern scientific concepts (and names to match) as Sunrider technology.
3. "Pseudo-plasma railgun"? You don't have the scientific knowledge to understand how absurd that is, do you? Railguns accelerate bullets via magnetic forces, generated by a current going down one rail, through the bullet, and up the other. Plasma is not magnetic, so it wouldn't be accelerated that way (though, being charged, it would be accelerated...perpendicular to the barrel), even if the current traveled through it. That's not getting into the "Pseudo-" prefix. What, exactly, is "pseudo-plasma"? It's certainly not anything mentioned in any scientific literature I've read...

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And that's it. We clearly have some difference in what we recognize as sensible in science fiction, and I think it's clear enough. We can either return to our old argument about the Army or leave it here, we've derailed this thread enough.
Well, we're still discussing the Sunrider universe.
And no, our differences are not in what we recognize as sensible, but what we recognize as similar. There's a pretty big difference between the two.

Offline mikebrand83

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2015, 11:03:05 pm »
Actually, space fighters in Star wars are absolutely bad at being space fighters. Mech of any kind are fairly better at it than any space fighter with a remotely aerodynamic shape and without the hull full of thrusters.
I'd argue once more that reality would be the very opposite:
Quote
Again, I would argue that the reality is somewhat the reverse. Dump (analogous to a mecha:) a person with an neutral buoyancy belt locked around their waist deep enough into a huge, unlit water tank (where they can't even see which direction the air bubbles they breath out goes) while spinning them around a couple of times, and they're just as liable to uselessly flail around trying to swim down or to the sides, as they are upwards by chance.

Meanwhile, someone in that (analogous to a "space" fighter:) hypothetical "barrel" can ignore their irrelevant biological instincts and rely on their instruments and training to immediately start taking control. Similar to how pilots can falsely feel that they are climbing as a result of the combination of gravity and G-forces of accelerating, but can rely on their instruments to tell them that they are actually level and that nosing down would be disastrous. Or otherwise flying/landing in conditions where they can't use on what they see outside as reference, and can only trust their instruments.

The Star Wars spacefighters' not-really aerodynamic shape provides no assistance in an environment with no air. But their predictable placements of thrusters around their center of mass means that their onboard computers can be pre-programmed to account for all of its own movements, meanwhile the slightest shift of any of a mecha's limbs or weapons would require exponentially more complexity in calculations to prevent sending itself into uncontrollable spins around its center of mass.

Offline Megillot

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2015, 08:56:35 pm »
Do we even know what 11 hexes means? I mean, most battles tend to be around a planets gravity well, and if that covers around the moon (like in Ryuvia prime) this means an average 400.000 km.

Battle area are much less than 400 000 km long. At Far Port PACT fleet warped in at 10 000 km from the defending forces and they still had time to formulate tactics (if word "tactics" could apply to Kayto's brilliant plan of charging straight ahead) and say the motivating speech.

But let's assume battle screen is really 400 000 km long and make some calculation for science - I'm talking about width and not height since most movement happens on the X-axis.
Battle screen is 18 hexes wide. This means single hex is 22 222.22 km wide. For comparison, diameter of the Earth at the equator is 12 756.2 km, so our planet will completely fit in one hex on screen.

Sunrider can move three hexes in one turn. This makes 66 666.66 km. Let's make another assumption and say that turn takes 1 minute of time. Now the average speed of Sunrider is 1 111 111 m/s or roughly 0.37% speed of light - not too big, right?
However because Sunrider is for all intents and purposes immobile before and after it moved, it should accelerate during first half of its way, then turn around and decelerate, stopping as it reaches its destination. Let's assume constant acceleration. With 0 starting velocity and acceleration, it reaches maximum velocity in 30 seconds after starting movement at 33 333.33 km from its starting point. Since s = 1/2at^2, all this time it was accelerating at 74 074.07 m/s^2 or 7558.58 g and reached maximum velocity of 2 222 222.1 m/s.

This was Sunrider, but how about a faster ship? Phoenix can move 10 hexes (22 2222.2 km) in one turn. This makes its average speed 3 703 703.33 m/s or 1.23% speed of light with max velocity 74074066,5 m/s and acceleration 2469135,55 m/s^2 or 251952,61 g.

Summary: I hope these ships are equipped with really good inertial compensators or else the crew will turn into a thick layer of red paste on the walls.

Offline Histidine

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2015, 05:03:32 am »
"Don't you use your fancy mathematics to muddle the issue!"

Attempting to extrapolate heavily abstracted game mechanics to what "really" happens in the story is only going to cause much suffering. Just say no!

Offline Megillot

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2015, 05:31:04 am »
"Don't you use your fancy mathematics to muddle the issue!"

Attempting to extrapolate heavily abstracted game mechanics to what "really" happens in the story is only going to cause much suffering. Just say no!

But where's the fun in that?

Offline Marx-93

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2015, 08:21:18 am »
Actually, space fighters in Star wars are absolutely bad at being space fighters. Mech of any kind are fairly better at it than any space fighter with a remotely aerodynamic shape and without the hull full of thrusters.
I'd argue once more that reality would be the very opposite:
Quote
Again, I would argue that the reality is somewhat the reverse. Dump (analogous to a mecha:) a person with an neutral buoyancy belt locked around their waist deep enough into a huge, unlit water tank (where they can't even see which direction the air bubbles they breath out goes) while spinning them around a couple of times, and they're just as liable to uselessly flail around trying to swim down or to the sides, as they are upwards by chance.

Meanwhile, someone in that (analogous to a "space" fighter:) hypothetical "barrel" can ignore their irrelevant biological instincts and rely on their instruments and training to immediately start taking control. Similar to how pilots can falsely feel that they are climbing as a result of the combination of gravity and G-forces of accelerating, but can rely on their instruments to tell them that they are actually level and that nosing down would be disastrous. Or otherwise flying/landing in conditions where they can't use on what they see outside as reference, and can only trust their instruments.

The Star Wars spacefighters' not-really aerodynamic shape provides no assistance in an environment with no air. But their predictable placements of thrusters around their center of mass means that their onboard computers can be pre-programmed to account for all of its own movements, meanwhile the slightest shift of any of a mecha's limbs or weapons would require exponentially more complexity in calculations to prevent sending itself into uncontrollable spins around its center of mass.

Well yeah, they are easy to control, but their lack of thrusters on anything except their rear continues to be dumb. Given in general how they launch though (almost levitating) is probable that they have some kind of other technology, which makes me wonder again why they don't use that technology to maneuver instead of going in straight predictable paths and engage in dog-fights. To me complicated still tops dead, but we spend 5 days arguing that so I'm not going to open it again.


Things

It is said 10.000 km at Far Port? Oh, then we already have the fist inconsistency. A laser would take less than a second to hit anything at that range, so failing to hit anything (even against Ryders) would be kinda impossible, and all that of "Cruisers not in range" would be dumb. And all of that "escape from Ryuvia Prime and slingshot through the moon" would also fail flat.

And also, I doubt a turn takes only a minute: at far Port the battle lasted close to a day (half of it could be considered cutscenes). On other cases though it seems the whole battle barely lasted one or two hours.

So, as Histidine said, hexes and turn time are Samu-kun variables that he changes constantly to mess with us. Just like Ceran seconds!
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home

Offline Megillot

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2015, 09:06:24 am »
It is said 10.000 km at Far Port? Oh, then we already have the fist inconsistency. A laser would take less than a second to hit anything at that range, so failing to hit anything (even against Ryders) would be kinda impossible, and all that of "Cruisers not in range" would be dumb. And all of that "escape from Ryuvia Prime and slingshot through the moon" would also fail flat.

And also, I doubt a turn takes only a minute: at far Port the battle lasted close to a day (half of it could be considered cutscenes). On other cases though it seems the whole battle barely lasted one or two hours.

So, as Histidine said, hexes and turn time are Samu-kun variables that he changes constantly to mess with us. Just like Ceran seconds!

In Helion system Kayto let PACT and pirate ships approach stealhed Sunrider at 40 000 km before he gave an order to begin reactivating its systems and met them fully prepared for battle, so I think the game is at least consistent internally.
In the same battle Ava says that hyperdrive will be powered in 15 minutes (while enemy is still 40 000 km away) and the mission objective is to survive for 6 turns. Based on this I made an assumption that one turn is closer to minutes than days or hours in duration (some time - 9 minutes - passed until enemies reached firing range, leaving 6 turns as 6 minutes).

Offline GreatWyrmGold

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2015, 08:24:08 pm »
"Don't you use your fancy mathematics to muddle the issue!"

Attempting to extrapolate heavily abstracted game mechanics to what "really" happens in the story is only going to cause much suffering. Just say no!
It's all we have to go on, and for the right kind of person (me, for instance, and apparently Megillot), it can be quite fun to see how abstract game mechanics add up into real-world numbers and figures.
In any case, it's better than randomly assigning numbers to the problem like Marx did.

Well yeah, they are easy to control, but their lack of thrusters on anything except their rear continues to be dumb. Given in general how they launch though (almost levitating) is probable that they have some kind of other technology, which makes me wonder again why they don't use that technology to maneuver instead of going in straight predictable paths and engage in dog-fights. To me complicated still tops dead, but we spend 5 days arguing that so I'm not going to open it again.
The problem is that, while the Star Wars craft only have a few visible thrusters, the Ruders have none, and what's a retrograde RCS thruster one second could easily become a radial-in or starboard or what-have-you thruster in the next.

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So, as Histidine said, hexes and turn time are Samu-kun variables that he changes constantly to mess with us. Just like Ceran seconds!
But that's no fun! And frankly, basing your counter-argument off of postulates like these mainly serves to undermine any hope of your own argument being taken seriously. If you're so convinced of the fluidity of what we see, why should we pay attention to your concrete answers?

Offline Marx-93

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2015, 08:41:29 am »
Plasma is not magnetic,

You know, I'll leave it at here. This clearly convinces me you don't have enough knowledge to talk about it even half seriously. I'll take all of your next posts as trying to pick up a fight; you missed half of my points and even somehow misunderstood the last half.

It is said 10.000 km at Far Port? Oh, then we already have the fist inconsistency. A laser would take less than a second to hit anything at that range, so failing to hit anything (even against Ryders) would be kinda impossible, and all that of "Cruisers not in range" would be dumb. And all of that "escape from Ryuvia Prime and slingshot through the moon" would also fail flat.

And also, I doubt a turn takes only a minute: at far Port the battle lasted close to a day (half of it could be considered cutscenes). On other cases though it seems the whole battle barely lasted one or two hours.

So, as Histidine said, hexes and turn time are Samu-kun variables that he changes constantly to mess with us. Just like Ceran seconds!

In Helion system Kayto let PACT and pirate ships approach stealhed Sunrider at 40 000 km before he gave an order to begin reactivating its systems and met them fully prepared for battle, so I think the game is at least consistent internally.
In the same battle Ava says that hyperdrive will be powered in 15 minutes (while enemy is still 40 000 km away) and the mission objective is to survive for 6 turns. Based on this I made an assumption that one turn is closer to minutes than days or hours in duration (some time - 9 minutes - passed until enemies reached firing range, leaving 6 turns as 6 minutes).

Good estimation, I missed it. I tend to focus a lot more on the big battles like Ongess and Far Port, while the truth is that Sunrider has a lot of more small engagement. The problem is that internal consistency then becomes all screwed-up on very big battles. For example returning at Far port, if the enemy fleet warped its cruisers closer to the battleships than to our fleet, it should have appeared before, and they would have clearly been in range.

And then it's the powering of the main cannon of the Legion; while it's used a lot more often than other superweapons, I don't think you can shoot that kinda thing every minute (The though of the Phoenix being able to cut down 3 Ryders in a minute is amusing though).
Why can only the evil have empires, power and majestic theme music? I reclaim the possibility of creating the Federal-democratic-free Empire! A (democratic) tyranny fueled by the Power of Love!

Started writing. You can check it out here: Home

Offline GreatWyrmGold

Re: A few questions regarding the Sunrider universe
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2015, 06:56:57 pm »
Plasma is not magnetic,
You know, I'll leave it at here. This clearly convinces me you don't have enough knowledge to talk about it even half seriously. I'll take all of your next posts as trying to pick up a fight; you missed half of my points and even somehow misunderstood the last half.
Plasma is charged. That's similar but different. Electrically charged particles are not affected by magnetic fields in the same way magnets are. Specifically but succinctly, magnetic fields provide a force on moving electrical charges perpendicular to both the field and the direction of the charge's movement, proportional to velocity and charge (and of course the strength of the field).
Electromagnetism is one force, but railguns use it in a specific way and that one way wouldn't work for plasma-based weapons. Talking about plasma in railguns shows that you don't understand one, perhaps both.

Also...that was only applicable to one of your points. So please, explain how saying that plasma isn't magnetic means you can dismiss all of my arguments.