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Sunrider => Sunrider General Discussion => Topic started by: Samu-kun on December 19, 2015, 09:46:02 am

Title: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Samu-kun on December 19, 2015, 09:46:02 am
WARNING: SPOILERS IN DISCUSSION

*shakes bell* Get your votes in before the final beta! Taking votes for the most likely traitor!

One of these beautiful young ladies will stab you in the back when you least expect it. But WHICH!?
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Marx-93 on December 19, 2015, 11:32:49 am
Cosette will turn back from the dead to stab me on the back?! And of course now it's when this beta introduces that Cosette is not-really-deadTM even if you picked that option...
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: BlackStarLine on December 19, 2015, 03:03:08 pm
Asaga obviously. The Sharr of Ryuvia personality is basically making her paranoid.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Void on December 19, 2015, 03:45:01 pm
Debating between Asaga, Chigara, Kryska...

But I ended up at Asaga, because reasons. :P
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Duke Rockhopper on December 20, 2015, 04:26:02 am
I've decided there's too much suspicious stuff surrounding Claude. Such has my vote been cast.
And here's why I think that
> She was rescued from pirates not PACT, so could still be aligned with them.
> She is the only word we have that says Chigara is not a prototype. Loathe as I am to trust Lynn on such, she does appear to think so.
> She was rather uninvolved in operation wedding crash, and could easily have slipped away to send a message to a certain Veniczar
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Gamer-chan on December 20, 2015, 04:33:39 am
It's totally Claude.

BATSHIT CRAZY THEORY INCOMING!
Claude is the original, non-prototype Arcadius. At the Sunrider's moment of triumph, she will sabotage the ship and seize control of it, using it to decimate the remaining forces of the Alliance. With the Prototypes purged, she shall lead PACT's forces to Sol and destroy the Alliance government.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Cliff_Mastah_15 on December 19, 2015, 11:10:21 pm
I've been debating between asaga, chigara, and kryska. However, due to a personality clash, I decided to go with cosette. She's a pirate after all. Asaga is a very close second for me due to recent changes in her behavior making it so uncomfortable. Let's see which route Samu-kun takes in the end. In any case, i will surely be suprised. IMO, I hope it's not asaga. I am biased towards her. IMMA FIRIN' MAH LAZORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Magnificent Beard on December 20, 2015, 11:13:08 am
Hell if I know. I keep forgetting who I thought it was every other beta.
It's either one or all of the following:
Spoiler
Chigara the Sullied
Spoiler
The Double Asaga Saga
Spoiler
The Ghost of Maray
Spoiler
Either Claude will betray them, or her Chest boosters will betray her, then the others
Spoiler
Samu will betray us because the Space Whales are actually evil and they're controlling his mind

Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Cliff_Mastah_15 on December 20, 2015, 04:31:29 am
hah! funny.  :P
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: John Titor on December 20, 2015, 11:43:57 am
Hell if I know. I keep forgetting who I thought it was every other beta.

Spoiler
The Ghost of Maray



Spoiler
Cera's City destruction was an inside job! LEGION's main cannon cannot melt a whole city protected by the Queen of Fujoshi. WAKE UP PEOPLE! #MarayIsTheTraitor
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: warchief-williams on December 20, 2015, 06:22:57 pm
Shame I can't pick two. Here is my two cents (and top two probable candidates) on this traitor business.

Spoiler
1. Asaga: Asaga is definitely suffering from paranoia and probable schizophrenia (or some other mental disorder) thanks to her Sharr form, and it is causing her to push away anyone who would try and help her, namely Sola. Now alone, and convinced that unless she outs Chigara as a prototype her life will be meaningless, I would not be surprised if she did something drastic, especially if the prototypes or this "coming darkness" thing, offer her some way to restore Ryuvia to glory and a way to win Kayto's heart.

2. Chigara: Incredibly intelligent? Check. Skilled in multiple fields? Check. Charismatic (in the easy to make friends type)? Check. Looks way too similar to every other prototype? Check. Sorry Chigara, all the data suggests that you are a prototype. I am pretty sure that Claude changed her medical report just to get the Commander off of you and Kayto's rears (so you can bump uglies). Ava even brought up the idea that Chigara could be a prototype with no overriding mission simply because her presence can cause distrust and tension. I still believe that Chigara is a sleeper agent, waiting to be activated. Maybe that is Alice's trump card for the battle of Cera, several Chigara models scattered throughout the Alliance fleet, waiting to throw their ship's self-destruct switch.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Pal on December 21, 2015, 05:28:01 am
Why are we feeding shamu ideas...?
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Cliff_Mastah_15 on December 20, 2015, 09:58:40 pm
why not? everyone who pays for the development of the game deserves some level of credit for ideas. But Samu is the one who can make those ideas a reality. But then again, you already knew that so I am just blowing smoke.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Pal on December 21, 2015, 06:24:59 am
XD
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Cliff_Mastah_15 on December 20, 2015, 10:52:16 pm
I am very curious who the traitor will be. Too bad I must wait for official release.

Samu, will you give a specific date when it get closer to completion? I know you are revealing it next year.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on December 21, 2015, 11:03:39 am
Ya see, I am smrt.

But I wanna know...

CAN I VOTE FOR THE PERSON I WANT THE TRAITOR TO BE?!?!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Plophos on December 21, 2015, 08:25:06 pm
I don't really want anyone to be the traitor but here are my thoughts about that topic: WARNING!!
Quote
deep spoiler...

Spoiler
I think there ist one detail in the new beta wich made me think about it. Alice talks with an unknown Voice wich has warned PACT. She calls the voice "traveler". If this is an hint to the traitor (and i think so) then there are not many Girls wich can be it. For my thoughts it could be Sola. Why? She ist the one wich fits the term "traveler" most. It haven't be the Sola wich is on the Sunrider but one of her other
personalities in another dimenson. In Solas path in Sunrider Academy this subject was the main plot. It could be that one of Solas personalities came to this Universe and support PACT to defeat the Alliance an rebuild the Ryuvian Empire. She were the Sharr and want to be it again. This motive is also fitting for the actual Sola. So why not?
On the other Side Claude can also named as traveler. She traveld a lot before hireing on the Sunrider didn't she? But I cannot really think about a plausible motive for her. Asaga and Chigara are too obviously for me and it qould disappoint me a lot when there is no good plot twist in the end. We'll see.
But if i had a whish it would none of them. Then the traitor would be an alternative personalitie of Kayto... >:D
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Cliff_Mastah_15 on December 21, 2015, 05:20:57 pm
deep spoiler...but gives me a lot of thought about other possible traitors. For all we know, it could be an anonymous person on the sunrider who is so deep in grief over the loss of cera city that he has lost his mind.

Forgive me; I didn't sleep at all last night. I am on my last leg of concentration.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Plophos on December 22, 2015, 02:55:39 am
Quote
deep spoiler...but gives me a lot of thought about other possible traitors. For all we know, it could be an anonymous person on the sunrider who is so deep in grief over the loss of cera city that he has lost his mind.

Forgive me; I didn't sleep at all last night. I am on my last leg of concentration.

Yeah its a very deep spoiler so i modified my previous Post a little so the warning is clear. ;D But i think if there should be an seriously discussion about the traitor it won't work without heavy spoilers. But for those who don't want to get spoiled: Don't read my post wich is marked as "spoiler"! ;P
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: tanker4444 on December 22, 2015, 01:19:22 pm
We can only hope its Chigara!

Honestly, as my least favorite girl out of the cast shes been getting more and more grating as the betas have progressed and the other girls have drifted farther and farther into the background. I guess Im just a rebel in a world ruled by Chigara love  8) .
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: warchief-williams on December 22, 2015, 01:57:37 pm
We can only hope its Chigara!

Honestly, as my least favorite girl out of the cast shes been getting more and more grating as the betas have progressed and the other girls have drifted farther and farther into the background. I guess Im just a rebel in a world ruled by Chigara love  8) .

Your not the only one. Seeing as how I prefer her rival, Asaga, I really want to see how this conflict will resolve itself.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Douman on December 22, 2015, 02:09:36 pm
None.
Waifu cannot be traitor
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on December 22, 2015, 07:40:25 am
Ya know what. Fuck it. Ava has started to show more of a personality and she's becoming less of a bossy and controlling mother and is now becoming a tolerable human being. She's a woman for once. Not going to vote for her.

Amazing, I don't hate Ava as much for once.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: BlackStarLine on December 22, 2015, 05:51:10 pm
Ava is best waifu after all BMU.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on December 22, 2015, 09:51:07 am
Ava is best waifu after all BMU.

Ava shit.

Chigara best.

Sola worse, but still gets an 8/10 on the moe charts.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Void on December 22, 2015, 11:50:49 am
I'll be honest, Chigara is grating for me.

MoA practically forces you into her direction, though it's for planning for Liberation Day, it's still grating.

After the reveal, she was the very first suspect for betrayal, followed by Kryska, but the gap was wide.

After the reveal of the beta of Liberation Day, that suspicion is switched to Asaga who has shown dangerous signs of turning for the worst.

However, Chigara is still an extremely close second. She's not off the hook just yet.

Though losing Chigara won't really effect me tbh, my reaction to losing Liberty will be "meh-ish" since I don't really use her much even in MoA. She tends to get shot down first anyways so I stopped relying on her abilities.

Losing the Seraphim however, will struck a huge blow, followed by Paladin & maybe Phoenix.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: John Titor on December 22, 2015, 04:09:59 pm
We can only hope its Chigara!

Honestly, as my least favorite girl out of the cast shes been getting more and more grating as the betas have progressed and the other girls have drifted farther and farther into the background. I guess Im just a rebel in a world ruled by Chigara love  8) .

Your not the only one. Seeing as how I prefer her rival, Asaga, I really want to see how this conflict will resolve itself.

Same here. I like her ryder for the abilities it brings to the game, but she's low on my like chart.

*Have yet to play beta, so my current top 3 most likely traitors are*

-Chigara
-Claude
-Ava
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Duke Rockhopper on December 22, 2015, 04:38:20 pm
We can only hope its Chigara!

Honestly, as my least favorite girl out of the cast shes been getting more and more grating as the betas have progressed and the other girls have drifted farther and farther into the background. I guess Im just a rebel in a world ruled by Chigara love  8) .

Your not the only one. Seeing as how I prefer her rival, Asaga, I really want to see how this conflict will resolve itself.

Same here. I like her ryder for the abilities it brings to the game, but she's low on my like chart.

*Have yet to play beta, so my current top 3 most likely traitors are*

-Chigara
-Claude
-Ava

I haven't finished the latest one yet, but I'm still pretty confident on what I've come to, despite the good theories everyone else has.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on December 22, 2015, 06:19:21 pm
I'll be honest, Chigara is grating for me.

MoA practically forces you into her direction, though it's for planning for Liberation Day, it's still grating.

After the reveal, she was the very first suspect for betrayal, followed by Kryska, but the gap was wide.

After the reveal of the beta of Liberation Day, that suspicion is switched to Asaga who has shown dangerous signs of turning for the worst.

However, Chigara is still an extremely close second. She's not off the hook just yet.

Though losing Chigara won't really effect me tbh, my reaction to losing Liberty will be "meh-ish" since I don't really use her much even in MoA. She tends to get shot down first anyways so I stopped relying on her abilities.

Losing the Seraphim however, will struck a huge blow, followed by Paladin & maybe Phoenix.

You're going to lose your Seraphim.

Chigara is innocent, and you're going to lose your Seraphim.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Marx-93 on December 22, 2015, 07:25:47 pm
BMU is salty~~
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Endershadow on December 22, 2015, 09:20:44 pm
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Void on December 23, 2015, 05:22:31 am
/me pats BMU's back.

There there~
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on December 23, 2015, 01:34:03 pm
The traitor is none other than

Spoiler
Yours truly

Just as had been predicted so long ago!












............your lord still hasn't played the latest beta.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Gamer-chan on December 23, 2015, 06:00:41 am
The traitor is none other than

Spoiler
Yours truly

Just as had been predicted so long ago!


My lord! How could you betray us so?! :P
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on December 23, 2015, 02:46:05 pm
BMU is salty~~

It's what is going to actually happen.

The traitor is none other than

Spoiler
Yours truly

Just as had been predicted so long ago!


My lord! How could you betray us so?! :P

Well Gorby, I knew this was coming.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: John Titor on December 23, 2015, 05:04:57 pm
I'll be honest, Chigara is grating for me.

MoA practically forces you into her direction, though it's for planning for Liberation Day, it's still grating.

After the reveal, she was the very first suspect for betrayal, followed by Kryska, but the gap was wide.

After the reveal of the beta of Liberation Day, that suspicion is switched to Asaga who has shown dangerous signs of turning for the worst.

However, Chigara is still an extremely close second. She's not off the hook just yet.

Though losing Chigara won't really effect me tbh, my reaction to losing Liberty will be "meh-ish" since I don't really use her much even in MoA. She tends to get shot down first anyways so I stopped relying on her abilities.

Losing the Seraphim however, will struck a huge blow, followed by Paladin & maybe Phoenix.

You're going to lose your Seraphim.

Chigara is innocent


"There is no such thing as innocence. Only varying degrees of lewd guilt."

The Codex of Waifu Warfare, Unknown Author
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Void on December 23, 2015, 09:09:04 am
I'll be honest, Chigara is grating for me.

MoA practically forces you into her direction, though it's for planning for Liberation Day, it's still grating.

After the reveal, she was the very first suspect for betrayal, followed by Kryska, but the gap was wide.

After the reveal of the beta of Liberation Day, that suspicion is switched to Asaga who has shown dangerous signs of turning for the worst.

However, Chigara is still an extremely close second. She's not off the hook just yet.

Though losing Chigara won't really effect me tbh, my reaction to losing Liberty will be "meh-ish" since I don't really use her much even in MoA. She tends to get shot down first anyways so I stopped relying on her abilities.

Losing the Seraphim however, will struck a huge blow, followed by Paladin & maybe Phoenix.

You're going to lose your Seraphim.

Chigara is innocent


"There is no such thing as innocence. Only varying degrees of lewd guilt."

The Codex of Waifu Warfare, Unknown Author

This codex is epic xD
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Zel on December 23, 2015, 10:28:47 am
At this point it seems the most unreliable turns out to be Asaga. Then again all the lovely plot of "IS Chigara really a Prototype? Find out next time!" esque dialogue fits with a space operas Machiavellian machinations. Any or all of them could put a blade in Kayto's kidney if they really wanted to, lets be honest.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Void on December 23, 2015, 11:39:59 am
At this point it seems the most unreliable turns out to be Asaga. Then again all the lovely plot of "IS Chigara really a Prototype? Find out next time!" esque dialogue fits with a space operas Machiavellian machinations. Any or all of them could put a blade in Kayto's kidney if they really wanted to, lets be honest.

I still point my suspicion to both Asaga & Chigara, Asaga being the most likely followed closely by Chigara. Kryska, maybe, but we'll see.

Claude is about half & half for me, & as for Icari, I see her a less likely candidate.

The ones who are least likely to be the traitor would be Ava. Sola seems like she's also least likely to be the traitor.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Plophos on December 24, 2015, 02:21:16 pm
I already had a theory but thinking all over it cames to an general discussion so here are my resluts:

First we have to think about that not only things that happens in LD are locating the traitor. FA and MoA are also involved. Another big point is the motive of the traitor. Nobody wakes up in the morning thinking "Oh lets betray everyone"! The last thing we have to think about is the opportunity to betray the Sunrider. Note: Ava says something important: PACT was warned since operation wedding crash!
   


On this thoughts i get started:

1. Opportunity - based on Avas theory the traitor has informed PACT since operation wedding Crash:

Asaga
Ava
Chigara
Cosette - wasn't on the Ship at the time of "wedding crash"
Claude
Icari
Kryska - wasn't on the Ship at the time of "wedding crash"
Sola

So Kryska nad Cosette are out of the Game - they weren't on the ship and could'nt warn PACT about the upcoming operation. There is also the point Asaga could'nt warn PACT - she told them not to get after her but at this point this could be a plan leading them into the trap.

2. Motive:

Asaga - The motive all are thinking about is her turn to evil because of the Sharr. But this just begins in the end of MoA! before this time she is getting jealous about Chigara and Kayto but there is no general motive to betray the Sunrider and cooperatre with PACT. She doesn't have a general motive.

Ava - There is not an single sign why she should have a motive to betray Cera and support PACT. When she is the traitor she must have cooperate with PACT since the begining of FA. I can't see a reason why she should help to destroy her home and murder civilians. Also she is totaly in order and paperwork. Rules are her highest pleasure. She wants to execute the ceran Soildiers who cooperate with the Pirates in MoA. I can't see a motive.

Chigara - She could have a motive. Being an Prototype would be enough already. But there are so much doubtful details wich doesn't make the situation clear. She could destroy the Sunrider serveral times and end it all. But she doesn't. But she has the knowledge and opportunity to contact PACT without being caught. The relationship with Kayto could also be real and fake. It's hard to think what's behind the mask of Chigara. Is she pure or is she the traitor? There is also a parallel to Sunrider: Academy where she had an twin sister Lynn. They swaped roles in her route so an fraud of Chigara could also be an fraud of Lynn as Chigara - why not? Against this theory ist my former Post. The argument in it make it be a little more complicatet... But Chigara could be the traitor on this point...
Quote
I don't really want anyone to be the traitor but here are my thoughts about that topic: WARNING!!


   
Quote
deep spoiler...


Quote
Spoiler
I think there ist one detail in the new beta wich made me think about it. Alice talks with an unknown Voice wich has warned PACT. She calls the voice "traveler". If this is an hint to the traitor (and i think so) then there are not many Girls wich can be it. For my thoughts it could be Sola. Why? She ist the one wich fits the term "traveler" most. It haven't be the Sola wich is on the Sunrider but one of her other
personalities in another dimenson. In Solas path in Sunrider Academy this subject was the main plot. It could be that one of Solas personalities came to this Universe and support PACT to defeat the Alliance an rebuild the Ryuvian Empire. She were the Sharr and want to be it again. This motive is also fitting for the actual Sola. So why not?
On the other Side Claude can also named as traveler. She traveld a lot before hireing on the Sunrider didn't she? But I cannot really think about a plausible motive for her. Asaga and Chigara are too obviously for me and it qould disappoint me a lot when there is no good plot twist in the end. We'll see.
But if i had a whish it would none of them. Then the traitor would be an alternative personalitie of Kayto... >:D

Claude - Claude is an unkown character for me. I cannot imagine if the is only a little pervert doctor or an traitor. She could have the opportunity to betray all but what's about the motive? This would be very theoretical but none very good sign is seen in FA,MoA or LD so far why she could be the traitor. But maybe there'll comes an motive in the final part of LD.

Icari - Also an more or less unkown character for me. But she could have an motive. If she never gave up the hate on PACT and is in favor for an war of extermination against PACT there is an chance to be the traitor. First she wants PACT to dominate the neutral Rim and attack the Alliance after the war happend she doesn't want a freedom. She wants death to PACT so the must go on. I know the motive isn't strong but it could be an alternative.

Sola - Sola... In my opinion the bigest candidate for being the traitor... why? There ist so much mystery around her. First she is the formal Sharr 2000 years ago - but did sleep only 3 month in stasis like claude found out? She is also focused on the Ryuvian Empire and supports Asaga as her queen in LD so far. She also doesn't argue with Asaga when she has the chance - she let the sharr get stronger and stronger. Maybe she wants Asage to be going mad? But why should she support PACT? Well there are serveral theorys. First of all PACT could found Solas body first. As we know from the Prototypes they are able to clone. We also know from Sunrider: Academy that Sola is divided in mere realitys wich are bound to her yet. This could be a result of an DNA experiment with her. PACT took Sola with them manipulated her an put her back in her place where she is wating for someone important. But how could they plan to put her on the Sunrider? They couldn't. But they could wait for an Ship wich is in their interest and let her find Sola. If the Ship would be useless it would be destoyed by the System. If the Sunrider was an importand Ship at this time to PACT or not cannot be answerd. The theory is also very vague - too much unknown quantity.

The general motive of Sola could be the rebuild of the Ryuvian Empire and PACT is an force wich could help her to do so. Ryuvian was an powerful and maybe also cruel empire in her times. This is what she is telling us. Also she is only an "half Sharr" - but why? She also says that the sharr is the result of DNA manipulation wich is only made in the Royal family. She has an common mother but why should they only manipulate her half? It dosen't make sense to me so far. This and that she only spend three month in her tank make me suspiciously. There is something hitten. Another hint ist the FAQ from the Sunrider: Liberation Day webside. There is one question:
Quote
Mask of Arcadius says that the next installment was going to be called Rebirth of the Holy Empire. Answer: Once you play Liberation Day, you might just be able to find a surprise.
It could be an hint of trying to rebuild the Holy Empire of Ryuvian. But is the person who wants this most Sola? Why not!  :P

3. Conclusion

In the end there are four possible candidates for being the traitor with the possibility i think so far:

Chigara: 70%

Claude: 55%

Ikari: 30%

Sola: 89%

I think Chigara would be like Asaga too obviously and would disappoint me a lot. I hope for an big bang in the final and a traitor wich is not be mentioned so far. I think there are some points i forgot or that will be come to my mind later i'll add them in the discussion by time.

But for now: Merry Christmas everybody!!  :)
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Geocorn on December 24, 2015, 05:03:50 pm
Haha finally Asaga is winning a poll
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Douman on December 24, 2015, 05:08:45 pm
Ava is best waifu after all BMU.

Ava shit.

Chigara best.

Sola worse, but still gets an 8/10 on the moe charts.

You got it all wrong:
Ava->Sola->...->Chigara->Asaga
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Void on December 24, 2015, 05:15:52 pm
Ava is best waifu after all BMU.

Ava shit.

Chigara best.

Sola worse, but still gets an 8/10 on the moe charts.

You got it all wrong:
Ava->Sola->...->Chigara->Asaga

My good man Douman... You have the same thoughts as I do. :P
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Revontulet on December 24, 2015, 05:32:06 pm
Well frankly...Ava shown as the traitor would be most shocking and imPACTful.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Void on December 24, 2015, 05:51:09 pm
Well frankly...Ava shown as the traitor would be most shocking and imPACTful.

Maybe, but it also won't make sense, unless you can write the intrigue & foreshadowing like AkabeiSoft2's G-Senjou no Maou from the start.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on December 24, 2015, 07:41:02 pm
Ava is best waifu after all BMU.

Ava shit.

Chigara best.

Sola worse, but still gets an 8/10 on the moe charts.

You got it all wrong:
Ava->Sola->...->Chigara->Asaga

My good man Douman... You have the same thoughts as I do. :P

Are you saying that Asaga is above them all?



Let me end this, right here. Are you ready for this??

Sola has only been asleep for 3 months only. Let's just say, that by SOME miracle, PACT got to the zone before the Sunrider, and found the original Sola in the container, but then took her out, and replaced her with a clone and gave her all the memories of the original, and hoped that the blast would DESTORY the Sunrider and if it didn't, they had a back-up plan.

What if "Alpha" is the first attempt to clone Sola? What if PACT knew about Claude's whereabouts and lead the Sunrider to her with the assistance of the Pirates? They knew Claude would have info about the ship graveyard, and wanted to destroy the Sunrider because PACT knew the Sunrider was looking for an edge in the war.

Also, the resemblance: Check it.

Another thing, I superimposed the images. Sola's and Alpha's match, while Chigara's and Alpha's are off.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Douman on December 25, 2015, 06:03:57 am
What's this about?
On right picute is Alpha? I'll get her too as waifu
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on December 24, 2015, 09:57:45 pm
What's this about?
On right picute is Alpha? I'll get her too as waifu

Same.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Duke Rockhopper on December 24, 2015, 10:41:14 pm
Ahh!!!!!! GJ! He's brought in evidence! What do we do?!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Revontulet on December 24, 2015, 10:52:21 pm
Mmmmmmm...Alpha.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Marx-93 on December 24, 2015, 11:48:01 pm
I'm just going to say that a super-imposed image means close to nothing to me when Chigara is basically explicitly told as a clone of Arcadius (well another prototype in fact, but you understand) yet at the end of MoA they looked so different I even thought the theory was wrong.

On the theories: First, think. The one that passed information to PACT actually doesn't need to be traitor. I think that in fact everything points to it having been Chigara through her brainwaves either willing or unwilling. Second, one of the problems with this is the idea of traitor. I mean, if Asaga was to go mad with the power of the sharr, would it be really betraying? Why would she go with the prototypes she explicitly hates? Yeah, she may kill Chigara in an impulse, or she may oppose to whatever she is trying, but that doesn't explicitly mean betraying the captain. She is simply doing what she has been announcing all the time she's planned to do. Insubordination or even madness? Ok, but that's not a betrayal. I argued for something similar when earlier at MoA people pointed at Kryska: her being the betrayer doesn't really make sense, because betraying implies unexpectedly having been on the other side from the beginning. You can't be a betrayer when you're a known mole sent by your "ally" and always profess your total loyalty to said "ally".

So, with that, unless the sharr personality ends having been in cahoots with the prototypes from the beginning (which while unlikely is not fully discarded), I find Asaga is out. Also, if the whole "Sola is the traitor" it's true, then that implies Claude would probably be a traitor too. In the first place, how did she know where the Ryuvian graveyard with a still functioning super-dreadnought fully outclassing everything the galaxy has to offer was? If Sola was really tampered by someone, then her already extremely fishy knowledge becomes even fishier. Either she was given that information by someone manipulating the Sunrider (which she should have told someone else by now, given how important it ended being....) or she is in the plot itself (and then she could be masking Chigara's true nature in order to make Asaga even more suspicious of her). So, in my mind, Sola and Claude are a team. Perhaps, following my earlier thought perhaps Sola would be unwilling and thus Claude the true traitor?

Also, as a tidbit, the whole thing with Sola being half sharr refers to the fact that while Ryuvian superpowers come from genetic engineering, such was done in a way that it's transmitted to sons. Asaga it's the most obvious proof, what with the current Ryivia having lost all of their prowess yet she is still more powerful than Sola, born in the peak of its power (and the reason she's only "half" is because her mother was a commoner, while probably Asaga's mother had at least some distant royal parentage or was from a very distinguished lineage with similar enhancements).

Another one of my pet theories was that Ava could actually be the traitor, and the reason would be that PACT had her father imprisoned during the attack and was using him as hostage. Though given some later developments I think right now it's very unlikely.

Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: AkioKlaus on December 25, 2015, 02:05:25 am
since i was only eligiable for first beta... ill assume current ones are similar.. so asaga ;D
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Histidine on December 25, 2015, 11:59:40 am
I'm not really seeing any particular resemblance between Sola and Alpha in the images. (They have the same general build, but Sola has more convex shoulders/collarbone, and their facial features don't match)

Although I did notice Sola doesn't do the typical anime thing of eyebrows drawn over hair.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Void on December 25, 2015, 04:41:05 am
Ava is best waifu after all BMU.

Ava shit.

Chigara best.

Sola worse, but still gets an 8/10 on the moe charts.

You got it all wrong:
Ava->Sola->...->Chigara->Asaga

My good man Douman... You have the same thoughts as I do. :P

Are you saying that Asaga is above them all?



Let me end this, right here. Are you ready for this??

Sola has only been asleep for 3 months only. Let's just say, that by SOME miracle, PACT got to the zone before the Sunrider, and found the original Sola in the container, but then took her out, and replaced her with a clone and gave her all the memories of the original, and hoped that the blast would DESTORY the Sunrider and if it didn't, they had a back-up plan.

What if "Alpha" is the first attempt to clone Sola? What if PACT knew about Claude's whereabouts and lead the Sunrider to her with the assistance of the Pirates? They knew Claude would have info about the ship graveyard, and wanted to destroy the Sunrider because PACT knew the Sunrider was looking for an edge in the war.

Also, the resemblance: Check it.

Another thing, I superimposed the images. Sola's and Alpha's match, while Chigara's and Alpha's are off.

I think he meant that it's the other way around. :P

Aaanyways... Sola's condition might be explained in the brief summary in the Liberation Day home page on her character description.

Something about bizarre timelines, time devices, & all those thingamajigs. And after looking closely between Sola & Alpha, I don't really see that much resemblance. But that could be just my POV, since people have differing opinion, tested it when Ender looked at the map I made yesterday, he saw purple when I clearly made it blue, & that's just colors lol.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Gamer-chan on December 25, 2015, 07:36:09 am
Ahh!!!!!! GJ! He's brought in evidence! What do we do?!

It's okay, Duke! We just need to modify our theory!

*throws his current folder on Claude off to the side before grabbing more papers and scribbling things on them*

Claude is an agent of PACT, sent to lead the Sunrider to Sola. Cosette was tipped off that an unarmed transport would be passing through the area, right when the Sunrider arrived mid-attack. Cosette would not have been informed of the plan, and when she called in PACT reinforcements, Porkchops would have had no choice but to maintain the deception. A rendezvous point would have been agreed upon beforehand by Claude and PACT, which was the same point the Sunrider was ambushed and Asaga left.

Alpha is possibly one of the Sola mirrors mentioned in SA, or the weird-ass voice Kayto heard a few times in Sola's route; Maybe she's both. In that case, she might be looking to "integrate" with the Sola on-board Sunrider.

/me has not actually played the LD beta and is talking out his ass
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Douman on December 25, 2015, 11:22:27 am
I don't care: All my waifus are holy  ::)
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Duke Rockhopper on December 25, 2015, 01:03:54 pm
I think if Sola was the traitor, it wouldn't work with Arcadius. It was mentioned in MoA that he was very interested in getting as much ancient technology as he could. If Sola was working with PACT, I find it hard to believe he'd have left all the royal guard ships and the Sharr'Lac just sat there rather than taking them and reverse-engineering them to upgrade his fleet. You could argue that they were left as bait, but given how it turned out, it seems a colossal waste to me if he knew about it beforehand.

This does however throw a spanner in the Claude theory. If she knew about stuff in that region, she would likely have told her commander. I'm just going to hope that her guiding them there was a guess on her part.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Plophos on December 27, 2015, 06:49:47 am
Quote
I think if Sola was the traitor, it wouldn't work with Arcadius. It was mentioned in MoA that he was very interested in getting as much ancient technology as he could. If Sola was working with PACT, I find it hard to believe he'd have left all the royal guard ships and the Sharr'Lac just sat there rather than taking them and reverse-engineering them to upgrade his fleet

I don't think that this is an point angainst the Sola theory. When Sola is with Arcadius from the beginning she could give them plans, builds and technology before waiting to infiltrate the Sunrider or enemys. But it includes that Sola is put in her tank by PACT. Three Month is not that much time for someone who is 2000 years old. And the fact she has only half of the sharr power doesn't fit with the ryuvan rules of DNA manipulation. So there could be an manipulation by PACT. But somehow i think more and more that there is an 3rd party involved beside PACT and the Alliance wich is exploiting all parties...
   
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: GeonteneArgon00 on December 27, 2015, 06:10:29 am
Ava is best waifu after all BMU.

Ava shit.

Chigara best.

Sola worse, but still gets an 8/10 on the moe charts.

You got it all wrong:
Ava->Sola->...->Chigara->Asaga

My good man Douman... You have the same thoughts as I do. :P

Are you saying that Asaga is above them all?



Let me end this, right here. Are you ready for this??

Sola has only been asleep for 3 months only. Let's just say, that by SOME miracle, PACT got to the zone before the Sunrider, and found the original Sola in the container, but then took her out, and replaced her with a clone and gave her all the memories of the original, and hoped that the blast would DESTORY the Sunrider and if it didn't, they had a back-up plan.

What if "Alpha" is the first attempt to clone Sola? What if PACT knew about Claude's whereabouts and lead the Sunrider to her with the assistance of the Pirates? They knew Claude would have info about the ship graveyard, and wanted to destroy the Sunrider because PACT knew the Sunrider was looking for an edge in the war.

Also, the resemblance: Check it.

Another thing, I superimposed the images. Sola's and Alpha's match, while Chigara's and Alpha's are off.

At the same time, it could be a bit more complicated then you think.

Spoiler
I don't think the Alpha Prototype sis artificial human created from the DNA of either Sola or some other Ryuvian royal - or at least not a genuine one. I do however thing it's tied to Ryuvia since there are wisps of this power-trip of Arcadius being almost like an extension of the Ryuvian War where dissidents try to claim power. That's also supported by how in the Beta, Alice cited she wanted the Sharr'lac's power - does that mean the dreadnought that blew up wasn't the real Sharr'lac, or that it wasn't the only one? Or does "Sharr'lac" refer to the power in the Ryuvian bloodline as opposed to a physical weapon of war and that machines like the dreadnought were just a tool to awaken that?

Getting off topic - anyway, I think the Alpha may be an extension of a Ryuvian Legacy that Diode was researching, which lead to their little revolt (the Diode Catastrophe). And from there... the other Prototypes were made from Alpha. I think "Alpha Prototype" isn't just a designator for her having a position of leadership - I think she's the one that all the other Prototypes were derived from. They aren't perfect clones - more like bio-engineered replications based off Alpha's DNA as a template.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on December 27, 2015, 09:47:53 am
My theories have attracted 2 new members who rarely visit and speak, and they have some fun theories as well.
Gg mates. That's how it's done.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Marx-93 on December 27, 2015, 10:39:22 am
And the fact she has only half of the sharr power doesn't fit with the ryuvan rules of DNA manipulation.

I said before that it does fit, because the DNA manipulation isn't done in situ (if it was, how Asaga would have it?) but transmitted from father and mother to son. His mother being a commoner, Sola's DNA is only half "enhanced", thus, half sharr.

On the Sharr'Lac, I think there was a conversation on MoA where Sola implies that it actually was a mass-produced ship, just that all except one were disabled to avoid destroying the galaxy every time a war started (and the last one kept as failsafe for Ryuvians). I could see all the arsenal the Ryuvian rid themselves off being merely "sealed" somewhere instead of destroyed, so that's something to take into account.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Douman on December 27, 2015, 10:41:08 am
And the fact she has only half of the sharr power doesn't fit with the ryuvan rules of DNA manipulation.

I said before that it does fit, because the DNA manipulation isn't done in situ (if it was, how Asaga would have it?) but transmitted from father and mother to son. His mother being a commoner, Sola's DNA is only half "enhanced", thus, half sharr.

If only DNA's inheritance would work that simple...
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Plophos on December 27, 2015, 03:14:20 pm
Quote
I said before that it does fit, because the DNA manipulation isn't done in situ (if it was, how Asaga would have it?) but transmitted from father and mother to son. His mother being a commoner, Sola's DNA is only half "enhanced", thus, half sharr.

That's sounds to me like the power of the sharr is inherited by the parents but Sola says that every Ryuvan could have the power of the sharr. It's forbidden by the royality so only the royal family can use the power cause they're afraid of that power in common hands. But this sounds like an    
action after the Child is born by medics and science not by giving it path down by mother and father. Based on that theory i think Sola's "half power" could be an manipulation by someone who doesn't have all the knowlegde wich is necessary. Asaga could got her power on the same way so there is in my opinion nothing against this way of view. But i must admit that all the theory is very hypothetical.  :)
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Marx-93 on December 28, 2015, 12:59:57 am
The question would be, how the current Ryuvia, which is basically a state only by name, with no fleets, no technology and barely an economy, could modify Asaga.

Of course, you could say they still have a lost technology artifact to do it, but then it would have ended in PACT's power by now and we would face a sudden influx by super-soldiers (specially as the one who controls Ryuvia now is Fontana).
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: warchief-williams on December 28, 2015, 04:12:31 pm
The question would be, how the current Ryuvia, which is basically a state only by name, with no fleets, no technology and barely an economy, could modify Asaga.

Of course, you could say they still have a lost technology artifact to do it, but then it would have ended in PACT's power by now and we would face a sudden influx by super-soldiers (specially as the one who controls Ryuvia now is Fontana).

I'm would like to join this conversation, if no one minds...

Given how Fontana seems to harbor a distaste for super-weapons and unlike Arcadius seems to have some sense of honor (the dastardly kind) I doubt he would try to forcibly implement a super-soldier program. Maybe a volunteer one, but even then, he would probably cautiously explore the Lost Technology on Ryuvia, only implementing it after all the risks are known.
Spoiler
Remember, this is the guy who betrayed the Prototype Arcadius when she tried to activate the black hole-spawning Paradox Core, it isn't a stretch (for me at least) to see him being equally wary of Lost Technology
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Plophos on December 28, 2015, 06:20:51 pm
Quote
The question would be, how the current Ryuvia, which is basically a state only by name, with no fleets, no technology and barely an economy, could modify Asaga.

Of course, you could say they still have a lost technology artifact to do it, but then it would have ended in PACT's power by now and we would face a sudden influx by super-soldiers (specially as the one who controls Ryuvia now is Fontana).

You have a point in this question. It could be that the power of the Sharr is something that every ryuvian has in his DNA. So you must only activate it by an technology. But there is the question why PACT doesn't use it for themselves and are so focused on Asaga. Maybe its also a political point and/or very complicated. But i think the way of path down of the sharr power is very vague in Sunrider. There is no complete explain how it works in detail. If it would be just inherited and every ryuvian could get the power like Sola says, how could the royal family prohibit the path down? So the simple way doesn't seem to work. There must be an intervention - how ever it works.

Quote
The question would be, how the current Ryuvia, which is basically a state only by name, with no fleets, no technology and barely an economy, could modify Asaga.

Ryuvia isn't the great empire anymore that's right and is lacking a strong fleet but where in Sunrider does it become clear that there is no economy or technology? Maybe i missed something but this fact is new to me. And if there is no science wich produce new technology why shouldn't there be traditionial technology wich is used for path down the power of the Sharr? It had to work for many centuries ago so why not in this times?

Quote
Given how Fontana seems to harbor a distaste for super-weapons and unlike Arcadius seems to have some sense of honor (the dastardly kind) I doubt he would try to forcibly implement a super-soldier program. Maybe a volunteer one, but even then, he would probably cautiously explore the Lost Technology on Ryuvia, only implementing it after all the risks are known.

That's also an discussable point. Fontana seem to be more or less the "good guy" on PACT's side but it could also be an political act. With an coup against Arcadius or rather the clones he could get the power over PACT. But it seems he is not that drastic like the clones. But when he could get the chance he would also conquer the neutral Rim and defend the Alliance i think. He is convinced by the ideology of the original Arcadius. But the original Arcadius  seems not to be an cruel mass murderer like the "clone-Arcadius".
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Marx-93 on December 28, 2015, 07:06:12 pm
I think that what Sola refers is that potentially any ryuvian can have the power of the Sharr, but only those on the royal family/higher nobility get the modification done. And after it, because the Ryuvian work through a nobility system the modifications must logically pass down the line to sons. It's only logical from a feudal standpoint. Also, if the sharr power was present on almost everyone, how would the gem even distinguish the royal family of the others to the point of differentiation between Sola and Asaga? I always supposed it was through the modified genes.

On Ryuvia's technology and economy, it's not directly stated, but heavily implied. At some point it's said that Ryuvia's ships are basically scrap, and their Ryders basically piles of scrap trying to imitate their previous figures but with a capacity a lot inferior than Even PACT and Alliance standard ones. From here, technology can be ruled out. It's also told that the court is a tremendously decadent one and that they have luxuries while the populace starves. Given that their fleets seem also to be very few in number, from those 2 I deduced that the economy must not be so hot.

Another important point is that Ryuvia is actually bigger and more densely populated than Cera, yet everything points a lot inferior in everything else (Cera's fleet was strong and cutting edge enough to actually be a consideration to PACT, and their economy strong enough to even be desired by the Alliance; Ryuvia is far below in both cases). I mean, while no economy and no technology are an exaggeration, everyone wants it only because of Lost Technology and its strategic position, while everyone else is a lot more loving with Cera despite it being smaller and less habitable.

Given how Fontana seems to harbor a distaste for super-weapons and unlike Arcadius seems to have some sense of honor (the dastardly kind) I doubt he would try to forcibly implement a super-soldier program. Maybe a volunteer one, but even then, he would probably cautiously explore the Lost Technology on Ryuvia, only implementing it after all the risks are known.
Spoiler
Remember, this is the guy who betrayed the Prototype Arcadius when she tried to activate the black hole-spawning Paradox Core, it isn't a stretch (for me at least) to see him being equally wary of Lost Technology

... I could actually see Fontana being wary of Lost Technology. I still don't quite believe it, but it's possible. Though given his soldiers seem very loyal to him, I doubt he would have problems to make a volunteer squad.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Plophos on December 30, 2015, 04:29:18 pm
Quote
I think that what Sola refers is that potentially any ryuvian can have the power of the Sharr, but only those on the royal family/higher nobility get the modification done.

That's a point where i can agree. But i have a problem with the word "forbidden". Sola says its forbidden to activate the Sharr power for everyone except the royal family because they are afraid of a common with that power. For me it's a logical thought. The fact it's only forbidden to get the power of the sharr implies to me that every Ryuvan could become the Sharr or there could more then one. If that's true there have to be an    
intervention how ever it should be done.

Quote
And after it, because the Ryuvian work through a nobility system the modifications must logically pass down the line to sons. It's only logical from a feudal standpoint.

You're right it's logical from a feudal standpoint but i'm not shure if the system on Ryuva works to 100% like this. I don't have a prove for a pro or contra argument but I'm very sure that there are some modifications made in the political system. But it's hypothetical at all. The pass down the line on sons is another problem i have with it. As i could remember the sharr was always a girl? I'm not sure about that but it sounded to me like that. Could be fortuity, could have system i don't know. And at least the sharr have to die in the ancient days when it uses it's power. I think the Sharr was selected - Sola wasn't the Sharr before she was selected to fight for Ryuva so modifications had done after this decision. So I think that the Ryuvan royal family is the only one with the (technical) opportunities to awake a Sharr - on their conditions. But that's only for the ancient days where it was regulatet.

Quote
Also, if the sharr power was present on almost everyone, how would the gem even distinguish the royal family of the others to the point of differentiation between Sola and Asaga? I always supposed it was through the modified genes.

I'm with you in this point - it works with the modified genes. But we must make a difference between Sola and Asaga. If Sola's story is right she is 2000 years older and had a later modification on her genes to activate the Sharr's power. I'm not sure that Asaga had an modification. In 2000 years it could become to an evolution of the Genes. On the common side where no Sharr power was activatet the power stunted after the time. In the royal family where modifications where on the agenda much longer it could become inheritable. But it must be activated by an trigger. Asaga had this trigger in the first fight against the prototypes. It's a little bit like DBZ when Son Goku turns into an SSJ.
On the other hand Sola has only half of the sharr power. I cannot see why it is like this except it was willed by her father or she got the power from someone else like PACT and the clones. This would fit with the only three month in the wreck where she was found by the Sunrider.

Quote
On Ryuvia's technology and economy, it's not directly stated, but heavily implied. At some point it's said that Ryuvia's ships are basically scrap, and their Ryders basically piles of scrap trying to imitate their previous figures but with a capacity a lot inferior than Even PACT and Alliance standard ones. From here, technology can be ruled out. It's also told that the court is a tremendously decadent one and that they have luxuries while the populace starves. Given that their fleets seem also to be very few in number, from those 2 I deduced that the economy must not be so hot.

Ok i understand this argument now. It's in an poor state but not lacking it.  ;)

Quote
Another important point is that Ryuvia is actually bigger and more densely populated than Cera, yet everything points a lot inferior in everything else (Cera's fleet was strong and cutting edge enough to actually be a consideration to PACT, and their economy strong enough to even be desired by the Alliance; Ryuvia is far below in both cases). I mean, while no economy and no technology are an exaggeration, everyone wants it only because of Lost Technology and its strategic position, while everyone else is a lot more loving with Cera despite it being smaller and less habitable.

You got definitely a point there. I can agree with this argument. Thats also an agrument for my theorie that the power of the Sharr is more or less forgotten on Ryuva and just doze inside Asaga. 2000 years are a long time where many can get lost changes...

Beside this - I'm really enjoying this discussion - thank you for it so far and a happy new year!  :)
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Marx-93 on December 30, 2015, 05:12:13 pm
On the Sharr: it's technically a tittle marking the best pilot in the Empire (is thus always a woman, because on Ryuvia traditionally only women could pilot Ryders). That's also why Asaga proclaims herself as the Sharr despite Sola in theory still having the tittle and the power; she now is a better pilot.

The exact correlation with the "power of the Sharr" has not been explicitly stated (of course, the power could be the first and the tittle adopted due to the name of the special power, or the Ryuvians could have shaped that special power to the tittle). I personally think that while the potential in in every "modified" member of the royal line, it really needs an extra by part of the pilot to "awaken". This however doesn't require any machine, as is what Asaga does naturally during the story. But it probably requires to be out there, you know, fighting. Thus only the female pilots could reach that level (I suppose simply commanding a fleet won't work to "awaken" it). And well, with that power it would be trivial to reach the level of the best. 

Can you tell me where Sola proclaim that is forbidden for commoners? I think that I interpreted that she referred to the tittle (as in, to restrict the tittle of the Sharr only to those who have "awakened" and not simply the best pilot when there's no royal on the front-lines), but it's a case where the wording may be crucial and I might have misinterpreted something.

For the rest, let me thank you too, and have a happy new year too!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: SharrOfRyuvia on January 07, 2016, 09:36:29 am
I'm just going to say that a super-imposed image means close to nothing to me when Chigara is basically explicitly told as a clone of Arcadius (well another prototype in fact, but you understand) yet at the end of MoA they looked so different I even thought the theory was wrong.

On the theories: First, think. The one that passed information to PACT actually doesn't need to be traitor. I think that in fact everything points to it having been Chigara through her brainwaves either willing or unwilling. Second, one of the problems with this is the idea of traitor. I mean, if Asaga was to go mad with the power of the sharr, would it be really betraying? Why would she go with the prototypes she explicitly hates? Yeah, she may kill Chigara in an impulse, or she may oppose to whatever she is trying, but that doesn't explicitly mean betraying the captain. She is simply doing what she has been announcing all the time she's planned to do. Insubordination or even madness? Ok, but that's not a betrayal. I argued for something similar when earlier at MoA people pointed at Kryska: her being the betrayer doesn't really make sense, because betraying implies unexpectedly having been on the other side from the beginning. You can't be a betrayer when you're a known mole sent by your "ally" and always profess your total loyalty to said "ally".

I disagree - do kinda think it would be betraying if Asaga goes off, because it feels more like she's using her distrust of Chigara as a convenient excuse to air out her personal jealousy and bitterness. Like Sola said in the beta, Asaga - after all her boasts and aspirations at Far Port about making Ryuvia better - is becoming just like her ancestors; corrupt by desire for what she doesn't have, to the point she'd contemplate darker thoughts like betrayal instead of trying to find a better solution.

If Asaga's insecurities and pride are prioritized to the point that she forgets why she is even in this situation to begin with (sacrificing a chance to be with Kayto just to give her friend Chigara a shot), that's not her going insane or mad - that's her CHOOSING to ignore the issues and her own part in them.

Updated: January 07, 2016, 09:41:53 am
Can you tell me where Sola proclaim that is forbidden for commoners? I think that I interpreted that she referred to the tittle (as in, to restrict the tittle of the Sharr only to those who have "awakened" and not simply the best pilot when there's no royal on the front-lines), but it's a case where the wording may be crucial and I might have misinterpreted something.

It's in MoA during the beach-scenes - she notes that the Sharr's were the best pilots in the Empire and often either born from or married into royalty - meaning that they would either be gifted (if such a thing is possible, though I assume it is/was) or born with the genetic enhancements that Sola stated in FA (First Arrival) were forbidden to commoners.

Of course that doesn't mean it's impossible pilot could earn their way up to that position and get gifted the implants after that point, but IDK about the social mechanics of the old Empire enough to make that claim with absolute certainty. However, if you NEED to have "Awakening", then that would indeed restrict Sharrs to only those with royal blood and the implants and gene-mods needed to make Awakening possible.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on January 07, 2016, 09:53:21 am
Who voted Chigara? Raise your hand so I can slap some sense into you with my cannon and send you on a little vacation away from home? You deserve it!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: SharrOfRyuvia on January 07, 2016, 10:40:43 am

In the end there are four possible candidates for being the traitor with the possibility i think so far:

Chigara: 70%

Claude: 55%

Ikari: 30%

Sola: 89%

I think Chigara would be like Asaga too obviously and would disappoint me a lot. I hope for an big bang in the final and a traitor wich is not be mentioned so far. I think there are some points i forgot or that will be come to my mind later i'll add them in the discussion by time.

But for now: Merry Christmas everybody!!  :)

I like all the deductive reasoning you did... but there is one thing that might throw the whole mix back into question.

We know that PACT has been getting info off the ship for a while now... but so far, I don't think it was ever confirmed that this leak and the traitor are the same or that they're even necessarily connected.

Take what Marx said for example  - say that Chigara's Prototype Brainwaves or whatever you call them are letting the Prototypes spy on the Sunrider with Chigara unwittingly broadcasting information? That would make her the leak but wouldn't make her the traitor, since a traitor is someone who's knowingly betraying the people (s)he works for to help the other side. Therefore, it's possible that Ava might be wrong and the traitor may not be the person or thing leaking info - the traitor might be someone who's actions are either connected to, brought about by or maybe even completely unrelated to the source of the leak. It's unlikely but not impossible.


Also, on an unrelated note;

Who voted Chigara? Raise your hand so I can slap some sense into you with my cannon and send you on a little vacation away from home? You deserve it!
That'd be me - my waifu's are Sola first and Ava second. Chigara and Asaga never really stuck for me - hell, I actually find them annoying. Not that'd I'd wish them death or anything, but I'ma not necessary going to shed tears if something does happen (adjusts devil horns).
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on January 07, 2016, 09:57:23 pm
Also, on an unrelated note;

Who voted Chigara? Raise your hand so I can slap some sense into you with my cannon and send you on a little vacation away from home? You deserve it!
That'd be me - my waifu's are Sola first and Ava second. Chigara and Asaga never really stuck for me - hell, I actually find them annoying. Not that'd I'd wish them death or anything, but I'ma not necessary going to shed tears if something does happen (adjusts devil horns).

You get a free pass because you have Sola before Ava. And yeah, most people find their type of character annoying, and I love them for it. (^_^)
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Duke Rockhopper on January 08, 2016, 11:17:25 pm
I've finally finished the 11 beta, and I'm SO DAMN HYPED!!!

AAHHHHHHHHH

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Mqvt9cm1UyE/UG6GTpq29WI/AAAAAAAADi8/Wyk6OkEf_4o/s1600/tumblr_madfjwU90k1qfkm7e.gif)

Having played it, I'm starting to see how Asaga could be the traitor, but ultimately my vote wouldn't change even if I could switch.
More suspicious actions from Claude
The first point being Claude's general unwillingness to save Chigara when she span out. The voice talking to Alpha also did a little "teehee", which reminds me of her. Really, I suppose I just feel the least attached to her so wouldn't mind seeing her go bad, but by this stage it looks like the whole team could break apart. What's going on?! What's going to happen?! WHO KNOWS?! THAT'S WHY IT'S GREAT!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Gamer-chan on January 09, 2016, 08:21:09 am
Plot twist.

Spoiler
EVERYONE'S THE TRAITOR!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Duke Rockhopper on January 09, 2016, 12:19:15 am
WHAT?!
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f9/62/2d/f9622d36520cf2b58ec05087dbb4b5dc.gif)
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Marx-93 on January 09, 2016, 09:32:43 am
Plot twist.

Spoiler
EVERYONE'S THE TRAITOR!

Spoiler
As Everyone's the traitor, that means that in fact, only Kayto is the traitor (for betraying them in not betraying). TRAITORCEPTION
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on January 09, 2016, 06:40:22 pm
FUCK THIS! WE NEED TO POST THE ONE WHO CALLS OTHERS A TRAITOR!

BEHOLD! ALL WHO IS HOLY IN TRAITOR CALLING!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Plophos on January 11, 2016, 01:35:20 pm
Quote
We know that PACT has been getting info off the ship for a while now... but so far, I don't think it was ever confirmed that this leak and the traitor are the same or that they're even necessarily connected.

Take what Marx said for example  - say that Chigara's Prototype Brainwaves or whatever you call them are letting the Prototypes spy on the Sunrider with Chigara unwittingly broadcasting information? That would make her the leak but wouldn't make her the traitor, since a traitor is someone who's knowingly betraying the people (s)he works for to help the other side. Therefore, it's possible that Ava might be wrong and the traitor may not be the person or thing leaking info - the traitor might be someone who's actions are either connected to, brought about by or maybe even completely unrelated to the source of the leak. It's unlikely but not impossible.

That's totaly right. My thoughts are based on an classical traitor. Like the story went this far it's presumably that we have an classical traitor. But who knows of the plottwist? I just analysed the facts we had so far but there are more opportunities how the stroy can turn. But when there is an leak by accident the hype of a traitor doesn't make scence. Could also be a tactic but i don't think so. For my opinion it would be fine when there is no traitor in the hard way.
I've also wonderd if the storyline will be consistent to the final. Why do we have so many choices from FA/MoA to LD? Could it be that the traitor results out of our choices? I don't see this at this time but it would very nice if the gameplay becomes something like that - i mean what do our choices effect so far? There are some light changes in the story - ok but for so many choices should be result a quite bigger effect then it does now. I hope there comes something like that. I've also hoped for multiple routes but also there is no sign of it yet. I would appreciate it.
   
Quote
Quote from: Marx-93 on December 30, 2015, 05:12:13 PM

Quote
Can you tell me where Sola proclaim that is forbidden for commoners? I think that I interpreted that she referred to the tittle (as in, to restrict the tittle of the Sharr only to those who have "awakened" and not simply the best pilot when there's no royal on the front-lines), but it's a case where the wording may be crucial and I might have misinterpreted something.


It's in MoA during the beach-scenes - she notes that the Sharr's were the best pilots in the Empire and often either born from or married into royalty - meaning that they would either be gifted (if such a thing is possible, though I assume it is/was) or born with the genetic enhancements that Sola stated in FA (First Arrival) were forbidden to commoners.

Of course that doesn't mean it's impossible pilot could earn their way up to that position and get gifted the implants after that point, but IDK about the social mechanics of the old Empire enough to make that claim with absolute certainty. However, if you NEED to have "Awakening", then that would indeed restrict Sharrs to only those with royal blood and the implants and gene-mods needed to make Awakening possible.

I think the question has been answered :)

Quote
On the Sharr: it's technically a tittle marking the best pilot in the Empire (is thus always a woman, because on Ryuvia traditionally only women could pilot Ryders). That's also why Asaga proclaims herself as the Sharr despite Sola in theory still having the tittle and the power; she now is a better pilot.

The exact correlation with the "power of the Sharr" has not been explicitly stated (of course, the power could be the first and the tittle adopted due to the name of the special power, or the Ryuvians could have shaped that special power to the tittle). I personally think that while the potential in in every "modified" member of the royal line, it really needs an extra by part of the pilot to "awaken". This however doesn't require any machine, as is what Asaga does naturally during the story. But it probably requires to be out there, you know, fighting. Thus only the female pilots could reach that level (I suppose simply commanding a fleet won't work to "awaken" it). And well, with that power it would be trivial to reach the level of the best.

Well - yeah thats a point. I think i explained earlier how this could work.

Quote
I'm with you in this point - it works with the modified genes. But we must make a difference between Sola and Asaga. If Sola's story is right she is 2000 years older and had a later modification on her genes to activate the Sharr's power. I'm not sure that Asaga had an modification. In 2000 years it could become to an evolution of the Genes. On the common side where no Sharr power was activatet the power stunted after the time. In the royal family where modifications where on the agenda much longer it could become inheritable. But it must be activated by an trigger. Asaga had this trigger in the first fight against the prototypes. It's a little bit like DBZ when Son Goku turns into an SSJ.

So in the ancient days there was an modification - 2000 years and serveral mutations later it's an passive attribute wich can awaken by an part of the royal family who had saved the genes over the time.

Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Dire Wolf on January 18, 2016, 03:37:47 pm
I think Chigara probably, Asaga I believe is too obvious and I distrust anything too obvious.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Douman on January 19, 2016, 06:31:24 am
Ok, it is old meme but that's all i can say about this thread:
http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=8145827
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Histidine on February 13, 2016, 05:45:17 am
Final beta is out! And our question is answ-

Spoiler
...?
Spoiler
!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: John Titor on February 13, 2016, 11:58:53 am
Final beta is out! And our question is answ-

Spoiler
...?
Spoiler
!

Box-chan was the traitor all along!!!!


Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Magnificent Beard on February 14, 2016, 04:10:43 am
I don't know about you guys, but I was pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Endershadow on February 15, 2016, 06:37:09 am
I love how it could potentially be seen as multiple traitors.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: John Titor on February 15, 2016, 09:35:37 am
I don't know about you guys, but I was pleasantly surprised.

Indeed. It was very  nicely done. 
Spoiler
I won't say if it was close or far from what I guessed, at least until one week after officisl release. I'll only say it's worth the wait
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on February 15, 2016, 08:55:07 pm
That was a terrible surprise.....
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Pal on February 16, 2016, 02:24:13 am
Sounds like chichi is the villain, bmu. :P
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Endershadow on February 16, 2016, 04:17:24 am
That was a terrible surprise.....

Don't worry BMU, all will be revealed on March 4... or will it?
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Vaendryl on February 16, 2016, 06:07:55 am
Join us now for the True true final reveal in "Sunrider 2k23: the re-avenging"!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on February 16, 2016, 03:39:42 pm
[Spoiker]Sounds like chichi is the villain, bmu. :P[/spoiler]

#1) put that in a spoiler tag.
#2) you might be wrong.
#3) you should see what I posted earlier before I deleted it. It's now on the LIS forum...

That was a terrible surprise.....

Don't worry BMU, all will be revealed on March 4... or will it?

Ya see, I have a problem with this statement.

The final version is going out to EVERYONE without bug testing....explain that?

Join us now for the True true final reveal in "Sunrider 2k23: the re-avenging"!

I'm gonna kill you too for being in on this project....

Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/XZPNVmE.jpg)
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Duke Rockhopper on February 16, 2016, 08:41:13 am
Just finished the beta (AT LAST!) The collection of events as a whole kept me constantly surprised. Can't wait for official release!
Spoiler
And can someone just...explain to me why the feels hit me so hard? Like, sure be sad, but I was more sad than I expected to be.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: John Titor on February 16, 2016, 06:14:17 pm
Just finished the beta (AT LAST!) The collection of events as a whole kept me constantly surprised. Can't wait for official release!
Spoiler
And can someone just...explain to me why the feels hit me so hard? Like, sure be sad, but I was more sad than I expected to be.


My experience concerning those events was more of a *Dawww* , *Laughter* , a "Wait, I've seen a very similar scene in GUNDAM, it didn't end well.* , *Feels* ,followed by a **TTGL** moment of awesome, and ended with a mix of

Spoiler
I WAS RIGHT!!! IT WASN'T A PARANOID MADMAN'S RAMBLING!!!  *tips tinfoil hat*


and a  "And now... now we wait until March *gendo pose* " .

By the way:
Spoiler
Anyone else thinks the designs of some of the Arcadi were great? Specially a certain someone
Spoiler
we end up fighting in the last level of the Beta
. It really seemed like the type of person who would set the galaxy ablaze and send everyone to a certain death and still most  of them would willingly follow
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on February 17, 2016, 02:53:16 am
Spoiler
I WAS RIGHT!!! IT WASN'T A PARANOID MADMAN'S RAMBLING!!!  *tips tinfoil hat*

I'm going to say that I find it EXTREMELY hard for ANY forum member or player to believe up until the very end that they had believed they were right about this. You had to reaaaaaaally doubt yourself throughout the entire game and possibly even give up at a certain point, so you might have been right, but if you stopped believing at any point or was doubting yourself, you weren't exactly right, because, although you were right, you lost.

It's like,

Putting all your ships in Pearl Harbor. Great idea right? They're all docked and we had the idea that it would be a deterrent to Japanese aggression in the Far East. We had the idea that they MIGHT attack it, but it was "highly unlikely". We threw out any theories we were given.

We already know the end result of what happened, but as you can see, we took a huge hit because of it. By the time it was happening, it was too late to do anything about it and we basically lost that battle.

We were right about it the ENTIRE time, but doubt caused us to ignore the signs.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: John Titor on February 16, 2016, 07:11:45 pm
Actually, the Pearl Harbour incident had little effect on the US navy as such, as most of  the ships sunks were in the docks and were easily refloated... and all the carrier fleet was actually far away from there.


I think Midway and the combination of deception and overconfidence of the IJN would be a better analogy of what you are looking for.



Back to the topic at hand: it was more of a theory I had but that had little to no ground to stand on aside from ... *I'll keep it in spoilers, we can discuss this extensevely in a couple of weeks, don't want to even hint who the traitor is yet.*

Spoiler
The lack of information on some characters and my paranoid suspicions. And about hte doubt thing...I doubted, but most of all I doubt anything that is heavily hinted or is considered the most logic outcome.

Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on February 17, 2016, 04:21:13 am
Actually, the Pearl Harbour incident had little effect on the US navy as such, as most of  the ships sunks were in the docks and were easily refloated... and all the carrier fleet was actually far away from there.


I think Midway and the combination of deception and overconfidence of the IJN would be a better analogy of what you are looking for.



Back to the topic at hand: it was more of a theory I had but that had little to no ground to stand on aside from ... *I'll keep it in spoilers, we can discuss this extensevely in a couple of weeks, don't want to even hint who the traitor is yet.*

Spoiler
The lack of information on some characters and my paranoid suspicions. And about hte doubt thing...I doubted, but most of all I doubt anything that is heavily hinted or is considered the most logic outcome.

You see....you took my analogy literally and corrected me on history, for which (as you all know) I know little to none about...and the hope was that you wouldn't overlook the analogy and get the idea.

Remember, there is a lack of info on ALL characters EXCEPT Ava. Why? Because he had to make cuts. ._.

This INCLUDES AND IS NOT LIMITED TO

Actual spoiler
Claude, who, btw, was the one who constantly examined Chigara and said "there was nothign wrong" and we don't know what happened to Claude yet. Ava found things in her holo so guess what?? She's in conspiracy as I mentioned before. LOL! XD
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: John Titor on February 16, 2016, 08:57:41 pm
Actually, the Pearl Harbour incident had little effect on the US navy as such, as most of  the ships sunks were in the docks and were easily refloated... and all the carrier fleet was actually far away from there.


I think Midway and the combination of deception and overconfidence of the IJN would be a better analogy of what you are looking for.



Back to the topic at hand: it was more of a theory I had but that had little to no ground to stand on aside from ... *I'll keep it in spoilers, we can discuss this extensevely in a couple of weeks, don't want to even hint who the traitor is yet.*

Spoiler
The lack of information on some characters and my paranoid suspicions. And about hte doubt thing...I doubted, but most of all I doubt anything that is heavily hinted or is considered the most logic outcome.

You see....you took my analogy literally and corrected me on history, for which (as you all know) I know little to none about...and the hope was that you wouldn't overlook the analogy and get the idea.

Remember, there is a lack of info on ALL characters EXCEPT Ava. Why? Because he had to make cuts. ._.

This INCLUDES AND IS NOT LIMITED TO

Actual spoiler
Claude, who, btw, was the one who constantly examined Chigara and said "there was nothign wrong" and we don't know what happened to Claude yet. Ava found things in her holo so guess what?? She's in conspiracy as I mentioned before. LOL! XD



Just as you say, the last point in special was the basis of all my conspiracy/tinfoil hat theory.  True, we know little about many characters background, and you already explained the reasons for it.

Spoiler

But from some of them we don't even have a confirmed name , and origin and they don't seem to be in the databases either. It may be in my nature, but I trust the ones who seem more harmless and smiley a whole lot less. 

Spoiler
My paranoia and imagination seemed to be on the right track this one time, and I might still be completely wrong. For what we know the holo could containimages of a flat-chest  serious and workholic Claude smoking a cigar. That would be mind blowing

So I might have got lucky on this one.

And sorry as if it seemed as if I had overseen what you were hinting at, starting discussing the details of the analogy was ill suited.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Duke Rockhopper on February 16, 2016, 10:00:16 pm

This INCLUDES AND IS NOT LIMITED TO

Actual spoiler
Claude, who, btw, was the one who constantly examined Chigara and said "there was nothign wrong" and we don't know what happened to Claude yet. Ava found things in her holo so guess what?? She's in conspiracy as I mentioned before. LOL! XD

Spoiler
That was the main reason I had for suspecting she was the traitor in the first place. Everything we had saying that Chigara was ok was from her, there was no third (or in this case I suppose fourth) party confirmation.
Spoiler
The bit where it got to me was when I needed Sola to kill a unit in her hit, but she didn't have the damage for it, so I went "Oh okay I'll just use the damage boos- oh, oh no I won't...I don't have that any more ;_;"
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Shirley on February 17, 2016, 07:11:48 am
Just as you say, the last point in special was the basis of all my conspiracy/tinfoil hat theory.  True, we know little about many characters background, and you already explained the reasons for it.

Spoiler

But from some of them we don't even have a confirmed name , and origin and they don't seem to be in the databases either. It may be in my nature, but I trust the ones who seem more harmless and smiley a whole lot less. 

And sorry as if it seemed as if I had overseen what you were hinting at, starting discussing the details of the analogy was ill suited.

It's fine, you have historical knowledge and you have every right to use it and share it, it's what most of the people on this forum get joy out of talking about most. I just wanted to make sure you saw the analogy.

Actual spoilers still
The reason I didn't suspect her miss innocent was because of blind love (shut up) and she was too pure, too innocent and too perfect to become tainted....like in Sora no Otoshimono. The thing is though, nothing is perfect....nothing can be, nothing is, and nothing ever will be perfect so it should've been obvious but I'm a hopeful guy who looks for the best in everything.

As I've said before:

(http://i.imgur.com/dNzPvsn.jpg)

Spoiler
That was the main reason I had for suspecting she was the traitor in the first place. Everything we had saying that Chigara was ok was from her, there was no third (or in this case I suppose fourth) party confirmation.

Yeah, I felt the same way...



Samu-Kun, you just gonna let us run the thread like this? I mean, no official one on this or the other site? Idk, it's fine. I enjoy this here but I'm still worried about spoiling things when the poll was for the LAST beta and not the current one and they might think these spoilers are for the older beta.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Magnificent Beard on February 17, 2016, 06:59:04 am
Spoiler
Heh, I just realized I had actually forgotten who I voted for, and at the time I had gotten to the end of the beta, I could have sworn I thought it was going to be someone else. Turns out I was right! Go past me!
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: Duke Rockhopper on February 17, 2016, 03:57:26 pm
Controversial Spoiler
While we're all talking about who was right and who's wrong on the guessing front, I'd like to reinstate that I think it's still Claude. After all, the reason Ava suspected there was a traitor is not because of some jealousy over Kayto causing a last minute turn, but because she suspected someone was sending messages to PACT about their location. Asaga might have switched sides for a bit at the end, but there's no way in my mind that she would ever try to get a then-enemy in communication to get rid of Chigara, when at that point the Arcadius sisters weren't even known about.
Title: Re: FINAL VOTE: Which waifu is the traitor? [!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!]
Post by: SharrOfRyuvia on February 17, 2016, 08:47:28 pm
Controversial Spoiler
While we're all talking about who was right and who's wrong on the guessing front, I'd like to reinstate that I think it's still Claude. After all, the reason Ava suspected there was a traitor is not because of some jealousy over Kayto causing a last minute turn, but because she suspected someone was sending messages to PACT about their location. Asaga might have switched sides for a bit at the end, but there's no way in my mind that she would ever try to get a then-enemy in communication to get rid of Chigara, when at that point the Arcadius sisters weren't even known about.

Spoiler
Keep in mind though that I don't think it was ever directly stated the traitor was the same as the spy or that they were the source of the info leak. It's been insinuated before that Chigara, being a Prototype, may have been sending information unwittingly - the result of being specially grown as a homing beacon and the perfect spy; one who doesn't even know she's one.

If that's the case, Chigara could be the info leak without being the traitor - you know, since a traitor by definition is someone who chooses to turn on you - freeing up Asaga, Cladue or literally any of the other crewmembers to be the Traitor. It would be a pretty clever bait-and-switch turn-around if true.

Updated: February 17, 2016, 08:56:07 pm
Actually, the Pearl Harbour incident had little effect on the US navy as such, as most of  the ships sunks were in the docks and were easily refloated... and all the carrier fleet was actually far away from there.


I think Midway and the combination of deception and overconfidence of the IJN would be a better analogy of what you are looking for.



Back to the topic at hand: it was more of a theory I had but that had little to no ground to stand on aside from ... *I'll keep it in spoilers, we can discuss this extensevely in a couple of weeks, don't want to even hint who the traitor is yet.*

Spoiler
The lack of information on some characters and my paranoid suspicions. And about hte doubt thing...I doubted, but most of all I doubt anything that is heavily hinted or is considered the most logic outcome.

You see....you took my analogy literally and corrected me on history, for which (as you all know) I know little to none about...and the hope was that you wouldn't overlook the analogy and get the idea.

Remember, there is a lack of info on ALL characters EXCEPT Ava. Why? Because he had to make cuts. ._.

This INCLUDES AND IS NOT LIMITED TO

Actual spoiler
Claude, who, btw, was the one who constantly examined Chigara and said "there was nothign wrong" and we don't know what happened to Claude yet. Ava found things in her holo so guess what?? She's in conspiracy as I mentioned before. LOL! XD

Spoiler
I've actually advocated that theory as well - that Claude's the traitor and was concealing Chigara being a Prototype, and that Chigara was unwittingly sending the Prototypes info through her hivemind link to them.

Chigara would then be a "spy" but she's not a "traitor" because she wasn't choosing to betray anyone, where as Claude would be a traitor if it turns out she not only hid Chigara's true nature but does something at some point to make her susceptible to the Prototype's hivemind taking her over (which was teased all the way back in First Arrival in how Chigara complained Arcadius' voice echoed in her head like "a siren's song" ever since Operation Wedding Crash). That would make a bait-and-switch because if Chigara suddenly gets mind-hacked it will look like she's the traitor and divert from the real culprit.

In short, lotta possibilities here.