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Mafia Vortex / Re: Bastard Mafia - Day 5
« Last post by Duke Rockhopper on Today at 09:11:25 am »

Wait, I never questioned why our bastard GM sent me it lol, and i dont care neither. You worried about the details and ignored the main thing in there. Because the main thing in my post was that you are on the verge of winning. And the context I got it was: no context. It was in the role pm everyone gets before game starts.

So, in a role PM, you were told the alignment of another player? While you are currently under suspicion of being a lover? Also, I am not ignoring the main thing, I am pointing out the problems. Another of which being the main thing itself actually, which is incorrect too, for reasons so eloquently explained in the post prior to this one.

why would anyone actually join the Cult?
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Mafia Vortex / Re: Bastard Mafia - Day 5
« Last post by Elvis Strunk on Today at 09:03:23 am »
"Hmm. If there had been six of us, but Merne had been alive, and... say, I had died instead. Merne votes for the Mafia member, negative one. The two teammates don't vote, that's three votes gone, with four needed. So, it would mean, if everyone other than them voted, it would be four voting for, with two counted. Even if Merne moved his vote away, it would be three instead of four. I admit, you have a point. I didn't think of it that way, so my reasoning for Merne being the specific target isn't as exceptionally useful. The only reasoning I could think of would be that he could find them, and then someone with the power to kill during the Day or Night could take them out, since, until today, it wasn't as clear that nobody like that actually existed. Still, I doubt that by itself is a good enough possibility to change your mind."

"That said, why, then, would anyone choose Merne as the person to kill? It might not be the most amazing reason, but it still seems like the best one there is- offsetting the possibility of a normally common role like the Vigilante, taking advantage of the situation the following Night. Anyway, all of that aside, it still doesn't outright get rid of the fact that someone, who isn't Town, killed Merne. Unless that's somehow related to this 'other work' Duke mentioned, which I personally find unlikely (probably impossible, since Jynx himself confirmed Duke visited him last night), it's still an issue that there's a killer, and I believe this to be more dangerous than the idea that someone might join Duke's Cult. The only reason we have to suspect that anyone DID join it to begin with, comes from Vert. The current suspect. He brought this up right after things started getting suspicious towards him- the same way Marx began trying to turn people on Duke rather than actually defend himself, yesterday."

"We don't know for sure that someone is working with Duke. If he's actually alone, then even if someone did join, they wouldn't have majority, and I intend to have us kill Duke off tomorrow. Furthermore, I question, why would anyone actually join the Cult? You're literally asked to become part of a group that, seemingly, can't really even do anything, on the off chance of maybe winning far off down the line? I know that I, for example, was visited towards the very beginning of the game, and there were so many still alive at that point, there wasn't even a reason to consider it. If not me, then, who else? Do you want to claim one of you joined? It seems Duke has been turned down every time, so far. Unless he also told Jynx that he has allies, in which case, it'd probably be best to share that. It would be the only vaguely trustworthy reason for me to suspect that might be the case."
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Mafia Vortex / Re: Bastard Mafia - Day 5
« Last post by Verthand on Today at 08:56:45 am »
"Well I wouldnt expect the cult leader to vote on anyone else. That was pretty much a given, but here it goes"


"Hmm. Look what I found. Okay, this makes me curious. I think it's safe to assume that 'at least one of the three between Vert, Geo, and Jynx are probably a bad guy'. However. They're all sticking together, sticking up for each other, and vouching for each other with things that can't be confirmed. Come to think of it, perhaps it IS worth considering that you're all the enemy. Please, I am even more curious now for where Geo confirmed being a Mason, because I looked and couldn't find it, and Vert saying this about you makes me... very curious."

"I'd like to hear more from Vert and Geo too. There seems to be more going on with them that needs explaining."

First, I rly dont know why you people think we have been backing each other so much. More like me trying to back Geo and getting suspicious because of it. Has Geo ever helped me here? One of the reasons you are voting on me is exactly because he didnt confirm my mason claim. As you can see, it wasnt a "lets back each other" thing. It was just natural from someone that decided to come clean to help you all.




Im pretty sure the Cult wins as a whole when they have a majority. This is from mafia wiki so I guess its pretty reliable.

"The Cult is a third-party group that seeks to recruit players into itself. The recruitment is done by a Cult Leader who is typically the only member of the Cult at the beginning of the game. At Night, it can recruit players into the Cult; these players henceforth lose their previous role identities and become Cultists. The Cult wins when it comprises half of the player list, at which time it controls the lynch and trivializes the rest of the game."

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Cult
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Im almost starting to think the one that Duke had converted was Elvis. Duke was clear that he had converted one person before, and with 6 or 5 alive, the Cult needs only 3 ppl to win, and we didnt have any cultist death.

"Gosh, how much faith can one person put in regular mafia rules? I almost want to vote for you for your naivety alone, suspicions or none. This is a bastard game. Nothing works as it is supposed to. If you've been basing your assumptions about me on this role description, then you are sorely mistaken. As much as I wish your interpretation of my identity was true, it simply isn't so. I have much more work to do than a simple cultist role."

I never said your role was a regular one, or that i interpreted it that way. I know what a pain it must be to try to persuade ppl to join. I used it for the "Cult wins as whole" clarification, hence why its bolded.

Quote
"Which is exactly WHY i trust them. Its the only reliable information i got when this started. Now why our bastard GM would tell me that, I dont know. But I still suggest you should rethink your assumption that me and Geo are lovers because like I said, if it were true, then there was no reason to kill Merne. And thats a very good hint for me."

Maybe because he is a bastard GM? Or is that too easy? Also, could you explain the context of the receiving of this information? Because it could equally be possible (in my eyes) that we have a pair of lovers which the other is not even aware of. Maybe Jynx is part of this relationship after all, but is unaware of it? That's about the only reason I can think that you would be told a player's alignment before starting."

Wait, I never questioned why our bastard GM sent me it lol, and i dont care neither. You worried about the details and ignored the main thing in there. Because the main thing in my post was that you are on the verge of winning. And the context I got it was: no context. It was in the role pm everyone gets before game starts.

"There is a very good reason for a fake Mafia Lover to kill Merne. For all intents and purposes, to everyone but each other, the Lovers appear as the side they are respectively pretending to be. If investigated, if targeted by an ability that acts a certain way toward an alignment, anything and everything. They are never actually that alignment, but they are effected as if they are. It is my understanding that Merne's ability gave a negative vote against anyone that is Mafia. This would also happen to the fake Mafia, the Lover that bears that fake role. The reason to kill Merne actually had nothing to do with voting, but had everything to do with the fact that, based on what we already figured out yesterday, he would be able to simply vote for every single player left until we found who he turned up negative for, and kill them. Without fail, he was absolutely the most powerful investigative role Town had, once we figured out his power."

And what I said was: Merne's ability to find that out doesnt matters. Lets say Merne was alive, and another person dead.

I alredy said it once, but will say again to make it more simple, because I think i wasnt clear enough.

1 - Merne finds that im mafia lover by voting. Then he unvotes.

2 - The lover cant vote on me because he die together.

3 - Town needs 4 votes out of 6, but the lover and merne cant vote on me. That means town will reach a max of 3 votes. That means town lost alredy. See how the lover mafia theory is broken?

And yes, im being reactive, im reactive when the first post of the day is a vote on me based on nothing at all, when I did nothing, and cant do anything at all to help it since im just a mason.

Well you ppl can vote on me and let Duke or whoever else is performing the kills win. Or lynch the only one we are SURE is not town. The choice is yours".
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Mafia Vortex / Re: Bastard Mafia - Day 5
« Last post by Duke Rockhopper on Today at 08:49:06 am »
"That may be true Jynx, or it may not. As ever, I remain too suspicious of trusting what we know roles are supposed to do. Not that it especially changes anything."
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Mafia Vortex / Re: Bastard Mafia - Day 5
« Last post by Arraxis on Today at 08:42:35 am »
"I think I've heard enough. I'm going to vote for Vert. Duke's clearly not killing people, and Elvis has been doing a great job so far. I'm disappointed to know that my power doesn't seem to work, but maybe it is only for redirecting kills. I know for sure I haven't actually targeted anyone who's been a victim for death."
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Mafia Vortex / Re: Bastard Mafia - Day 5
« Last post by Jynx on Today at 08:39:28 am »
Very well then, no harm in directly asking. Thinking twice, I never saw Geocorn confirming the claim, but he never denied it, either.
I found this:
Maybe Vert is telling the truth. Unless he's lying. Who knows? I sure don't! Anyway *jams a hot dog onto a stick* let's get ready for some lynching!

But I agree it's only an indirect confirmation. So. Geocorn: are you Verthand's partner in crime, or a Mason with him?

As for what Verthand says about me: I have no idea. As I said, I don't even know my alignment, let alone my role or my power. I don't know what Verthand has been told by the GM; for all I know he is lying, or trying to confuse us. As I said, I agree with you about the fact that there is a good probability he is our mystery killer. But this doesn't change my priority.

Anyway, Elvis' assumption of the Lovers' alignment (that they are to all effect a different alignment, only showing up as respectively Town and Mafia) and how it works in detail is only that: an assumption. We have no way to know and, frankly, I do not think your guess is more educated than mine. That said, Verthand makes a very good point. It would have been impossible to kill the remaining Mafia, assuming the two Lovers would not betray each other, had Merne been left alive.

And, Duke, one last remark: if I have to be convinced to join, I am pretty sure it implies that I win with you. You yourself do not refute the claim about being a Cult leader. I am pretty sure that you wouldn't even need to know that those you convert will win alongside yourself.
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Mafia Vortex / Re: Bastard Mafia - Day 5
« Last post by Duke Rockhopper on Today at 08:28:19 am »
"Good to see you all started without me. It gives me a lot more to pick through and show you all your lovely errors. Oh first off, I'm going to vote for Vert, predictably and for reasons previously given. With that done, let's get down to business...

If you can turn it down, it means that you gain something out of joining it - I would say, you can get the Cult's victory condition. Else, why would anyone ever join it out of his own will? It'd be tantamount to suicide.

My role bears no additional powers I'm afraid, Jynx. Your theory about what happens when I ask to chat with people is entirely incorrect. This is a bastard game after all, why should anyone get anything? Even I don't get to choose who joins. I need to CONVINCE people to accept of their own volition. Do you have any idea how hard that is in a game where EVERYONE is suspicious of their fellow players?! I just want some friends, that's all :( "

"Elvis's claim here that Duke already visited him concerns me, because that raises the suspicion on my end that I might not actually have any powers either. On Night 2 I used a power to shuffle everyone's locations, and nobody seemed to be puzzled about it, and Rev should have mentioned something about jailing himself. So either none of us are getting feedback on whether our powers are working or not, or I haven't actually succeeded in anything at all. Ergo, if Duke had contacted Elvis to recruit to a cult, he'd have no reason to target him a second time knowing that it didn't work, unless it needs to target the same person multiple times. And if Duke didn't target him, that means he targeted Jynx directly, meaning my redirection did not work."
"Bingo~! Jynx was the intended target, your swap didn't work. I also have a personal rule about not trying the same person more than once. It's woefully inefficient. Though in all truth, I was debating going to have tea with you instead. Still, it clears things up a bit."

This is becoming cuter and cuter~

"People are dying here. There is nothing cute about this :/"

"Hmm. Look what I found. Okay, this makes me curious. I think it's safe to assume that 'at least one of the three between Vert, Geo, and Jynx are probably a bad guy'. However. They're all sticking together, sticking up for each other, and vouching for each other with things that can't be confirmed. Come to think of it, perhaps it IS worth considering that you're all the enemy. Please, I am even more curious now for where Geo confirmed being a Mason, because I looked and couldn't find it, and Vert saying this about you makes me... very curious."

"I'd like to hear more from Vert and Geo too. There seems to be more going on with them that needs explaining."

(And then Vert posts. Most convenient!)


Im pretty sure the Cult wins as a whole when they have a majority. This is from mafia wiki so I guess its pretty reliable.

"The Cult is a third-party group that seeks to recruit players into itself. The recruitment is done by a Cult Leader who is typically the only member of the Cult at the beginning of the game. At Night, it can recruit players into the Cult; these players henceforth lose their previous role identities and become Cultists. The Cult wins when it comprises half of the player list, at which time it controls the lynch and trivializes the rest of the game."

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Cult
Quote
Im almost starting to think the one that Duke had converted was Elvis. Duke was clear that he had converted one person before, and with 6 or 5 alive, the Cult needs only 3 ppl to win, and we didnt have any cultist death.

"Gosh, how much faith can one person put in regular mafia rules? I almost want to vote for you for your naivety alone, suspicions or none. This is a bastard game. Nothing works as it is supposed to. If you've been basing your assumptions about me on this role description, then you are sorely mistaken. As much as I wish your interpretation of my identity was true, it simply isn't so. I have much more work to do than a simple cultist role."

Quote
"Which is exactly WHY i trust them. Its the only reliable information i got when this started. Now why our bastard GM would tell me that, I dont know. But I still suggest you should rethink your assumption that me and Geo are lovers because like I said, if it were true, then there was no reason to kill Merne. And thats a very good hint for me."

Maybe because he is a bastard GM? Or is that too easy? Also, could you explain the context of the receiving of this information? Because it could equally be possible (in my eyes) that we have a pair of lovers which the other is not even aware of. Maybe Jynx is part of this relationship after all, but is unaware of it? That's about the only reason I can think that you would be told a player's alignment before starting."

(And an elvis post! Am I really so slow at typing? ;_;)

"There is a very good reason for a fake Mafia Lover to kill Merne. For all intents and purposes, to everyone but each other, the Lovers appear as the side they are respectively pretending to be. If investigated, if targeted by an ability that acts a certain way toward an alignment, anything and everything. They are never actually that alignment, but they are effected as if they are. It is my understanding that Merne's ability gave a negative vote against anyone that is Mafia. This would also happen to the fake Mafia, the Lover that bears that fake role. The reason to kill Merne actually had nothing to do with voting, but had everything to do with the fact that, based on what we already figured out yesterday, he would be able to simply vote for every single player left until we found who he turned up negative for, and kill them. Without fail, he was absolutely the most powerful investigative role Town had, once we figured out his power."

"This also appears to be based on how we know lovers were originally designed. I've confirmed already and I'll say again that my role does not fit the regular descriptions, so it's hard to say if this theory is sound or not. But it offers explanation for things, which is hard to come by recently."
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Mafia Vortex / Re: Bastard Mafia - Day 5
« Last post by Elvis Strunk on Today at 08:21:51 am »
"There is a very good reason for a fake Mafia Lover to kill Merne. For all intents and purposes, to everyone but each other, the Lovers appear as the side they are respectively pretending to be. If investigated, if targeted by an ability that acts a certain way toward an alignment, anything and everything. They are never actually that alignment, but they are effected as if they are. It is my understanding that Merne's ability gave a negative vote against anyone that is Mafia. This would also happen to the fake Mafia, the Lover that bears that fake role. The reason to kill Merne actually had nothing to do with voting, but had everything to do with the fact that, based on what we already figured out yesterday, he would be able to simply vote for every single player left until we found who he turned up negative for, and kill them. Without fail, he was absolutely the most powerful investigative role Town had, once we figured out his power."

"Aside from that, I am not targeting someone that hasn't been active, suddenly. I have stated that you were my second biggest suspect for several days now. The fact you didn't or couldn't show up during that time doesn't change the fact that I have been following the same path for a very long time, and I'm not shifting things around at all, I'm being active, not reactive, and my task hasn't changed in the slightest based on any of the events that have transpired since I originally stated my suspicions. Certainly very different from what the Town's enemy would do, adjusting based on what seems best to cover their tracks at the time. I don't claim not to be suspicious, but you're both still ignoring the entire fact that we know one of the three I mentioned has the ability to kill. I would ask that you please stop trying to constantly shift focus on to Duke or myself, until you can at least explain away a fraction of the suspicion this places upon you."

"I admit, I don't now how Cults work; they're a pretty bastard group even in a normal game, and the only time I recall ever being part of one was in Fate Mafia, in which I joined the day the leader died, and was never told anything about their goals or motives- in fact, in the time I was awake, they never exchanged a single message at all, being asleep in real life themselves. Likewise, while I may be a member of a cult, and I may not be, this is not an argument by itself that you are not suspicious. I have maintained from the very start that everything about myself is suspicious, but you seem only to care at all when my finger is pointing at you."
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Mafia Vortex / Re: Bastard Mafia - Day 5
« Last post by Verthand on Today at 08:10:19 am »
"Wait does Geo loves me and I didnt know that? Dont be shy Geo, come out and tell everyone how much you love me~<3

Or you just tell them the truth that we are masons.

And I agree with Elvis, something very fishy seens to be going on.

"I do not believe myself to have armor, or, if I did, I believe it to be one-shot. Which is why my getting attacked also revealed me, something that can't exactly happen more than once. As for the Cult, you're missing the point. If everyone visited was automatically recruited, Cult has majority, Cult wins, already. However, people can turn this down. Why would whoever gets visited tonight, if Duke lives, accept this? I'm personally under the belief that, should the Cult win, Duke would be the only one to actually get a victory out of it. None of his underlings. Which is why I fully believe Duke needs to die, and soon- regardless of if I'm working under him, how could I ever possibly think he'd have my best interests at heart? This is, of course, ignoring the possibiliy that whoever he may have recruited, if Vert isn't lying outright, might have died already. Likewise, I certainly have no reason to join him if I were his target tonight, and I fail to see why Arra would either. You yourself claim to have already turned him down, as well, Jynx."

Im pretty sure the Cult wins as a whole when they have a majority. This is from mafia wiki so I gues its pretty reliable.

"The Cult is a third-party group that seeks to recruit players into itself. The recruitment is done by a Cult Leader who is typically the only member of the Cult at the beginning of the game. At Night, it can recruit players into the Cult; these players henceforth lose their previous role identities and become Cultists. The Cult wins when it comprises half of the player list, at which time it controls the lynch and trivializes the rest of the game."

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Cult

Im almost starting to think the one that Duke had converted was Elvis. Duke was clear that he had converted one person before, and with 6 or 5 alive, the Cult needs only 3 ppl to win, and we didnt have any cultist death. That means he is on the verge of winning, so yes, its a good reason to join - or lynch - him. On the other hand, pulling a lynch on someone that was recently absent would make it easier for the cult to win, because even if Duke cant recruit someone tonight, town wont be able to lynch them tomorrow if someone else dies tonight.

At same time Elvis, you say you are somehow sure im mafia, but you never said what backs it up with so much certainty. I still think its is one independent doing the kill - Merne had a negative vote on mafia, there was no reason to kill him. If I am rly "lover mafia" to Geo he cant vote on me or he dies, and without Merne vote, town would need 4 out of 3 votes to lynch me. If i were a lover mafia, I won alredy."

(OOC: The last 2 replies were posted while i was writing this one, will answer below)

"When did Geo confirm what Vert said? I never saw it. It's possible I missed it, and, if so, would very much appreciate if you could show this to me, so that I could process things from that perspective. Anyway, my thoughts on the Lover role are based on my own experiences with it, which is most likely what Dee would include here, seeing as I believe it's the only instance of it that has ever been used on this forum. And I do believe Duke's Cult is basically useless. Were you told of any possible benefit, when asked to join? Anything at all? If not, I'd say that lends itself to that idea. That aside, it is not that I know Vert is, for sure, the killer, of the two. It is simply that he definitely lied if either of them is. And the only other one I could see being the murderer is... you. Which I still consider drastically less likely, to be honest. I know I didn't do it, and I don't have a shred of suspicion towards Arra at all."


Updated: Today at 07:44:45 am
Also, when this started i had reliable information that Jynx is friendly to town, regardless of his alignment.

"Hmm. Look what I found. Okay, this makes me curious. I think it's safe to assume that 'at least one of the three between Vert, Geo, and Jynx are probably a bad guy'. However. They're all sticking together, sticking up for each other, and vouching for each other with things that can't be confirmed. Come to think of it, perhaps it IS worth considering that you're all the enemy. Please, I am even more curious now for where Geo confirmed being a Mason, because I looked and couldn't find it, and Vert saying this about you makes me... very curious."

"Which is exactly WHY i trust them. Its the only reliable information i got when this started. Now why our bastard GM would tell me that, I dont know. But I still suggest you should rethink your assumption that me and Geo are lovers because like I said, if it were true, then there was no reason to kill Merne. And thats a very good hint for me."
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General Chat / Re: Hyperspace Discord
« Last post by Hunley on Today at 07:41:21 am »
That's a good idea. Is this discord active?
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