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Sunrider => Sunrider General Discussion => Topic started by: Samu-kun on April 02, 2014, 07:04:01 pm

Title: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Samu-kun on April 02, 2014, 07:04:01 pm
Hi all.  This is a reminder that we're always looking for community members to update our TVTropes page and wiki with new information as the betas get released.  I'm already excited at the huge amount of fun stuff on the TVTropes page and look forward to what you add next! :D  (Please see Wave Motion Cannon)

TVTropes:  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VisualNovel/Sunrider
Wiki:  http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Sunrider_Wiki
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on April 02, 2014, 07:16:03 pm
a wild tvtropes link appears!
there go my next 2 hours out the window  :-\
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Elvis Strunk on April 02, 2014, 07:21:34 pm
I laughed. And then I realized I was already browsing TvTropes... and Cracked.

U-um... anyway... I hope everyone remembers to go to the actual trope pages and put an example for Sunrider there when you add new tropes. That way, more people will be able to find Sunrider through TvTropes!
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on April 02, 2014, 07:31:04 pm
Lord Gorchnik is pleased with these developments and might even add a few edits to the pages.

.....It's not like I care about this game or anything.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Ledabot on April 02, 2014, 08:23:38 pm
I'm a big fan of Tv tropes. Not even a member, even in this day and age. I think they call this lurking.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Elvis Strunk on April 02, 2014, 08:36:44 pm
I don't think I created an account myself until I was making the Sunrider page, even though I'd been browsing the site for the past couple years. I'm not so good at editing stuff in the proper format, so I never bothered adding anything (read as: messing anything up).
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on April 03, 2014, 02:51:46 am
I don't think I created an account myself until I was making the Sunrider page, even though I'd been browsing the site for the past couple years. I'm not so good at editing stuff in the proper format, so I never bothered adding anything (read as: messing anything up).

Gorchnik wants to inform you that after editing one or two pages you will be a master at it.  Diligence is a key component of being a part of my forces!  Keep at it!
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Kuroneko on April 05, 2014, 07:29:36 pm
I have a TV Tropes account, and also am not too big a fan of wikis myself. I made a TV Tropes account to guess on WMGs and that's about it
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on May 29, 2014, 12:08:25 am
I updated Asaga's Wiki! I thought about putting my own theory into it (well, I did 2, but those have moral evidence), but decided not to.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on May 29, 2014, 12:54:50 am
Gorchnik says taking a quick look at it, remember to put YMMV (read: opinions/personal thoughts) tropes in their respective section.  They don't belong on the main page.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on May 29, 2014, 01:08:10 am
Gorchnik says taking a quick look at it, remember to put YMMV (read: opinions/personal thoughts) tropes in their respective section.  They don't belong on the main page.

I have only known of Wiki's. Only after this forum was created did I find out about TV Tropes. So I only posted in the Wiki. I don't even know what TV Tropes is, and any time I look at their site, it hurts my Web-designing head since it's designed so poorly...in my opinion...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: MasterFail on May 29, 2014, 10:59:20 am
Whenever I go to TVTropes, I get... sidetracked. Don't know why. That makes editing quite difficult.

At least, Firefox doesn't crash so easily anymore while visiting that site...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Elvis Strunk on May 29, 2014, 11:14:55 am
It happens to the best of us...

After all, TvTropes will ruin your life. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: jesusalva on July 15, 2014, 12:30:30 am
Yay, another wiki to I take care of!
I'll start adding empty links to make the wiki seems 'updated'!

...You guys may need re-order, though.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on July 15, 2014, 02:18:50 am
Gorchnik likes how Sunrider's page has some of the most tropes on it for an English VN.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on July 16, 2014, 06:55:07 pm
Gorchnik likes how Sunrider's page has some of the most tropes on it for an English VN.

What?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 22, 2014, 09:40:09 am
Well, since these next days I have more free time than I am willing to admit, I thought about going wild on the wiki, that seems pretty forgotten. Because of that I have a pair of questions
Thanks. I don't promise anything though, I'm pretty noob at wikis, and so don't expect too much
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: AkioKlaus on July 22, 2014, 02:23:59 pm
Well, since these next days I have more free time than I am willing to admit, I thought about going wild on the wiki, that seems pretty forgotten. Because of that I have a pair of questions
  • There is some limit on the files uploaded? I though of uploading a pair of dozens of images, and to do it directly from the game files. Since is open Source, there should be no problems, but even so I ask. Want to limit the images or that I don't upload directly from the game files?
  • How should I go about spoilers? I was thinking of creating pages of thinks like the Invasion of Cera, or the Battle at Far Port (and maybe later add a part explaining the mission and initial positions, aside from the ingame exlanation), so we should put some warning? (if so at what point: anything that happens in the game, anything beyond the first two hours, etc) Or simply don't put anything?
  • There is a way for me to get the descriptions of planets directly? I would feel slightly stupid having to transcribe what is on the game word for word for every planet (sorry for being lazy)
Thanks. I don't promise anything though, I'm pretty noob at wikis, and so don't expect too much

Huge spoiler notice on top would help, and cera gettin blown up isnt so much of spoiler. its first 5 min of game. You can also darken the title as black bars I think so that you have to drag over it. (but this makes it very annoying so just go with spoiler warning.)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on July 22, 2014, 02:51:26 pm
Well, since these next days I have more free time than I am willing to admit, I thought about going wild on the wiki, that seems pretty forgotten. Because of that I have a pair of questions
  • There is some limit on the files uploaded? I though of uploading a pair of dozens of images, and to do it directly from the game files. Since is open Source, there should be no problems, but even so I ask. Want to limit the images or that I don't upload directly from the game files?
  • How should I go about spoilers? I was thinking of creating pages of thinks like the Invasion of Cera, or the Battle at Far Port (and maybe later add a part explaining the mission and initial positions, aside from the ingame exlanation), so we should put some warning? (if so at what point: anything that happens in the game, anything beyond the first two hours, etc) Or simply don't put anything?
  • There is a way for me to get the descriptions of planets directly? I would feel slightly stupid having to transcribe what is on the game word for word for every planet (sorry for being lazy)
Thanks. I don't promise anything though, I'm pretty noob at wikis, and so don't expect too much

There should also be a link somewhere on the main page of TV tropes that shows all of the formatting options and how to upload images to the site.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 22, 2014, 04:41:22 pm
There should also be a link somewhere on the main page of TV tropes that shows all of the formatting options and how to upload images to the site.

I was actually refering to the Sunrider wiki. I don't want to dissapoint my Lord, but every time I try to even have the idea of editing something in TV tropes I end sidetracked. Furthermore, with my big walls of text and penchant for universe-building, i think I'm more of a normal wiki guy, than a TV Tropes guy.

I actually started creating some articles in the wiki. I also separated Ryuvia from the Planet (Ryuvia Prime), because I supose that whenever we start talking about the Holy Empire, or something, it would get confusing fast (it isn't like Cera, were the nation only has ever had that planet).
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Megillot on July 22, 2014, 08:52:58 pm
How should I go about spoilers?

I love spoilers. Feel free to add everything.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on July 22, 2014, 11:45:28 pm
wiki's typically don't care about spoiling things. you go to a wiki for info and spoilers should be obvious. just keep it reasonable.
if people look up the combat mechanics there's no need to mention story spoilers, but if they look up the article for the glorious veniczar Cullen it can and should plainly mention he was lost at the battle of far point.
I know of no wiki that goes out of its way to hide spoilers.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 23, 2014, 06:55:26 am
wiki's typically don't care about spoiling things. you go to a wiki for info and spoilers should be obvious. just keep it reasonable.
if people look up the combat mechanics there's no need to mention story spoilers, but if they look up the article for the glorious veniczar Cullen it can and should plainly mention he was lost at the battle of far point.
I know of no wiki that goes out of its way to hide spoilers.

Perfect. I'll put a spoiler Warning anyway whenever I think that is heavy plot stuff (ex: true identity of Asaga). About the images, i have permission to basically upload 1/3 (joking, I think...) of the CG, update the character portraits (Kryska still has her old...) and add some more?

BTW. I already have made various changes and created a pair of pages. If you can see them and give me your OK or your total denial, it would help me to don't do any more changes that might be reverted.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on July 23, 2014, 08:01:58 am
wiki's typically don't care about spoiling things. you go to a wiki for info and spoilers should be obvious. just keep it reasonable.
if people look up the combat mechanics there's no need to mention story spoilers, but if they look up the article for the glorious veniczar Cullen it can and should plainly mention he was lost at the battle of far point.
I know of no wiki that goes out of its way to hide spoilers.

Perfect. I'll put a spoiler Warning anyway whenever I think that is heavy plot stuff (ex: true identity of Asaga). About the images, i have permission to basically upload 1/3 (joking, I think...) of the CG, update the character portraits (Kryska still has her old...) and add some more?

BTW. I already have made various changes and created a pair of pages. If you can see them and give me your OK or your total denial, it would help me to don't do any more changes that might be reverted.

I've looked through your work and it looks great so far! no complaints from me :)
the only thing that bothered me wasn't written by you at all, so that must be a good sign. (fixed it by now)
by all means, keep going :D
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 23, 2014, 09:04:03 am
wiki's typically don't care about spoiling things. you go to a wiki for info and spoilers should be obvious. just keep it reasonable.
if people look up the combat mechanics there's no need to mention story spoilers, but if they look up the article for the glorious veniczar Cullen it can and should plainly mention he was lost at the battle of far point.
I know of no wiki that goes out of its way to hide spoilers.

Perfect. I'll put a spoiler Warning anyway whenever I think that is heavy plot stuff (ex: true identity of Asaga). About the images, i have permission to basically upload 1/3 (joking, I think...) of the CG, update the character portraits (Kryska still has her old...) and add some more?

BTW. I already have made various changes and created a pair of pages. If you can see them and give me your OK or your total denial, it would help me to don't do any more changes that might be reverted.

I've looked through your work and it looks great so far! no complaints from me :)
the only thing that bothered me wasn't written by you at all, so that must be a good sign. (fixed it by now)
by all means, keep going :D

Thanks, then I'm going to go wild.
You still haven't ansewered about the images, tough...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on July 23, 2014, 09:26:11 am
I've no idea about the images. the wiki is hosted on gamepedia which hosts it for free. afaik there's no real need to worry about upload limits as much larger wiki's exist with on problems.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 23, 2014, 12:32:00 pm
I've no idea about the images. the wiki is hosted on gamepedia which hosts it for free. afaik there's no real need to worry about upload limits as much larger wiki's exist with on problems.

I was going to go trigger happy with the images, but the moment an image weighed more than 1Mb, my connection kindly said f**k you, so I'm going to take it slowly. Around half of the characters are done (expanded, and with the new portraits) though, going to go for the other half between today and tomorrow.

By the way Vaendryl, is there any way possible for you to give me the in-game planet descriptions without me having to transcribe them? Please? Think of my poor free time  :'(...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on July 23, 2014, 10:56:26 pm
By the way Vaendryl, is there any way possible for you to give me the in-game planet descriptions without me having to transcribe them? Please? Think of my poor free time  :'(...
I vaguely recall looking for the same in the game's code but the descriptions are actually an image rather than displayed through the engine. maybe Sam has it in text but I do not :(
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Endershadow on July 24, 2014, 01:52:04 am
By the way Vaendryl, is there any way possible for you to give me the in-game planet descriptions without me having to transcribe them? Please? Think of my poor free time  :'(...
As far as I'm aware, there isn't a built in way to do this. There might be a way if we use custom classes though...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 24, 2014, 06:24:55 am
By the way Vaendryl, is there any way possible for you to give me the in-game planet descriptions without me having to transcribe them? Please? Think of my poor free time  :'(...
As far as I'm aware, there isn't a built in way to do this. There might be a way if we use custom classes though...
By the way Vaendryl, is there any way possible for you to give me the in-game planet descriptions without me having to transcribe them? Please? Think of my poor free time  :'(...
I vaguely recall looking for the same in the game's code but the descriptions are actually an image rather than displayed through the engine. maybe Sam has it in text but I do not :(

Okay, thanks, I will simply put both the planet Image and the description's image, but then I'll need to get a little inventive abou the text.

By the way, the characters are already completed. Some may need a little revision and expanding, but all the heroines are finished. I also admit that I had a liitle of fun hiding some minor jokes, and, well, not hiding them in the pages where there is not anything serious anyway (*cough*ClaudeandCosette*cough*), so look and if you find it too ridiculous I'll tone it down.
Today is the Ryder day, time to put the uploaded images to use. I have too much free time

PS: By the way, Mining Union or Mining Confederation?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Endershadow on July 24, 2014, 06:28:10 am
PS: By the way, Mining Union or Mining Confederation?
I'm going to go with Mining Union because that's what it is in the game.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on July 24, 2014, 07:22:06 am
Okay, thanks, I will simply put both the planet Image and the description's image, but then I'll need to get a little inventive abou the text.

By the way, the characters are already completed. Some may need a little revision and expanding, but all the heroines are finished. I also admit that I had a liitle of fun hiding some minor jokes, and, well, not hiding them in the pages where there is not anything serious anyway (*cough*ClaudeandCosette*cough*), so look and if you find it too ridiculous I'll tone it down.
Today is the Ryder day, time to put the uploaded images to use. I have too much free time

PS: By the way, Mining Union or Mining Confederation?
had a look at Claudes article and made a number of corrections (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Claude_Triello&diff=1138&oldid=1128). you may want to look into a spellchecker for your browser. I don't have a problem with any jokes you put in there - the game can be pretty silly too at times.
it's mining union. I forgot which one it was and just put in whatever as a placeholder :) (fixed it now)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 24, 2014, 07:48:53 am
Okay, thanks, I will simply put both the planet Image and the description's image, but then I'll need to get a little inventive abou the text.

By the way, the characters are already completed. Some may need a little revision and expanding, but all the heroines are finished. I also admit that I had a liitle of fun hiding some minor jokes, and, well, not hiding them in the pages where there is not anything serious anyway (*cough*ClaudeandCosette*cough*), so look and if you find it too ridiculous I'll tone it down.
Today is the Ryder day, time to put the uploaded images to use. I have too much free time

PS: By the way, Mining Union or Mining Confederation?
had a look at Claudes article and made a number of corrections (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Claude_Triello&diff=1138&oldid=1128). you may want to look into a spellchecker for your browser. I don't have a problem with any jokes you put in there - the game can be pretty silly too at times.
it's mining union. I forgot which one it was and just put in whatever as a placeholder :) (fixed it now)

You are quite right. To be honest I'm in the akward position of having the spellchecker of my Firefox in my native language (spanish) and this last months my firefox is acting very funny. So I think that I'll simply start doing it in my Chrome. Thanks for the revision, probably going to look at everything again, because I'll have mistakes like that everywhere.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 24, 2014, 10:10:31 am
Sorry to double-post, but well, I finally realized how bad it was, and well, it is embarrassing. I'm sorry. I have now installed a proper spellchecker and revised my major contributions, but if you find some page with still some broken english, well, either tell me or revise it yourself

I actually asked everyone to tell me whenever I had any english mistakes, why did you let it go unopposed until it became THIS!

Actually I have to thank you Vaendryl, as looking more deeply I realized that my problems with spellcheckers was due to a virus, and that the Firefox was acting funny was too because of it. So in a way my broken english saved me from further problems. Now I should be able to do it properly.

My progress has been slowed, but I should be able to finish the ryders by tomorrow.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 25, 2014, 10:28:10 pm
Sorry for triple post (kind of a record here), but since nobody uses this thread had to do it. Samu-kun, at the lore portion of the PACT Revolution you talk about Venassars, right? Is an early spelling of Veniczar or totally different things? In general in the part of Lore there are a pair of thing that make scratch my head (such as Arcadius theoretically having more than 60 years, but his first public appearance being only at the year 490, etc), and I smell that this won't be the last of these kind of questions, so can you tell me of a way to contact you (or Vaendry, if he knows it) for this kind of things? A PM would serve, I suppose, but I don't know if you see them, or if you prefer another way.

By the way, the Ryders and characters parts are pretty much done, together with a decent spelling. Fell free to tell me what you think.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Samu-kun on July 26, 2014, 12:00:02 am
The Venassar was the leader of the Compact, the revolutionary movement which lead to the end of the New Empire.


The Compact became PACT once the New Empire was defeated and the former Imperial worlds were reorganized into a new nation state. Further, Arcadius titled himself and all the other leaders of the revolution as Veniczar following the formation of PACT, based on the word Venassar.


Most people in the galaxy do not really grasp the difference, as the Compact was an inter-planetary organization under intergalactic law, while PACT is a nation state. People now just call everything PACT.


The current age of Arcadius is based on estimates of his age upon his emergence in 490. Note though that the average life span of humans in civilized space in the world of Sunrider is around 130, so 60 is considered early middle age.


Also, good job with the wiki. b^_^
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 26, 2014, 07:07:57 am
The Venassar was the leader of the Compact, the revolutionary movement which lead to the end of the New Empire.


The Compact became PACT once the New Empire was defeated and the former Imperial worlds were reorganized into a new nation state. Further, Arcadius titled himself and all the other leaders of the revolution as Veniczar following the formation of PACT, based on the word Venassar.


Most people in the galaxy do not really grasp the difference, as the Compact was an inter-planetary organization under intergalactic law, while PACT is a nation state. People now just call everything PACT.


The current age of Arcadius is based on estimates of his age upon his emergence in 490. Note though that the average life span of humans in civilized space in the world of Sunrider is around 130, so 60 is considered early middle age.


Also, good job with the wiki. b^_^

Uh, interesting things, all of them. Then I suppose I understand why Icari despite being 25 years old is more or less thought as a teenager, and the Captain and Ava talk about such "long time" since high school (I suppose 10 years can be considered a long time).
Going to edit and update a pair of things. By the way Samu-kun, I asked in another thread but it becomes kind of important for the wiki, are the CG scenes true in-game? I mean, if I count 60 Alliance cruisers when the Emerald Fleet warps in, it has 60 cruisers? Or are the CG more thought for dramatic effect or too constrained by the budget to make this thought? Actually, do you mind if I ask you questions like this by PM? (at this rate, 80% of this thread will become my posts asking things...)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Elvis Strunk on July 26, 2014, 10:35:32 am
at this rate, 80% of this thread will become my posts asking things...
I'm sure nobody would mind this much. Besides, certain people may enjoy reading the information provided in your questions, and in the answers you receive.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on July 26, 2014, 01:18:57 pm
at this rate, 80% of this thread will become my posts asking things...
I'm sure nobody would mind this much. Besides, certain people may enjoy reading the information provided in your questions, and in the answers you receive.

at least there's a single person on this forum who cares about not spamming :)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 27, 2014, 10:31:40 pm
When I started having too much free time expanding the wiki, one of the first things that looked very bad was the fact that only half of the pages featured at the front page were done. Now with pride, I can tell that at the front page only one page without nothing in it remains, an is that of The Paradigm (more on that later). So i declare the first stage of the wiki complete! Now we the wiki is a serviceable one!

There is still a lot to do. Samu-kun still hasn't asked some of my questions (no, I don't get the hint, the CG are dramatic or true in-universe?), but even so I have to ask to change some of the things of the front page, put info on enemy units and finally start working with either infoboxes or tables for the big battles. This next weeks, I'm not going to be so active(going to play 4.2 and try the hex mod), but even so it should still improve quite a bit. Even so i want to say this:

-Now that is somehow complete, it would help if you visited the wiki. Not only orthographical mistakes, also I probably couldn't expand as much as possible the page of your waifu, and since I mainly dedicated myself to plot pages, the gameplay ones are still a little poor (they were the best once I started though). So if you want to add anything, do it freely except my lame secret jokes, these are sacred, understood!. If you plan to do it methodically try to tell it here though, this way it won't catch me by surprise if you make 10 edits in a day (also, this way we won't accidentally delete your edits, that while rare could happen).
-What do we do with the Paradigm. Samu-kun says that it won't appear in game, but nobody in this forum believes him. However, the truth is that even if it appears, it would theoretically be a secret character, so it shouldn't be in the front page. If I have permission I would also like to change some things of the front page. Why do we need pages with "characters" or "Lore" if we can use categories instead?
- I have named some pages that I won't create (like "Incident at Versta"), because I either don't have a good idea of how to do it or don't have near enough info to go on (ex: Solaris as a planet). If you want to create something, please go ahead.

And so, this is for today
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Samu-kun on July 28, 2014, 02:25:05 am
I swear, the Paradygm is not supposed to be in the game. It's just left over code for when the Paladin was still called Paradygm. Just ask Cayla Martin, I had to make her rerecord her lines so that she wasn't talking about Paradygm any more!
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on July 28, 2014, 01:24:01 pm
-What do we do with the Paradigm. Samu-kun says that it won't appear in game, but nobody in this forum believes him.
I swear, the Paradygm is not supposed to be in the game. It's just left over code for when the Paladin was still called Paradygm. Just ask Cayla Martin, I had to make her rerecord her lines so that she wasn't talking about Paradygm any more!

I guess what we need is...

*glasses*

...a Paradigm shift.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on July 28, 2014, 04:20:45 pm
While Gorchnik certainly applauds your effort and contribution to the wiki; it is just that, a wiki.  Don't take it so seriously. 

BUT MY LORD..... (http://cheezburger.com/6414836992)

We don't need Samu-shamu to answer every question, nor do we need people to go digging through code to try to find hidden space-whales or technical names we haven't seen in the game. Wikis are supposed to be updated as more information becomes relevant.  Given that we don't even have 2/3 of the game available to us lets just take it slow yeah?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Zjunrei on July 28, 2014, 08:12:54 pm
Hi all.  This is a reminder that we're always looking for community members to update our TVTropes page and wiki with new information as the betas get released.  I'm already excited at the huge amount of fun stuff on the TVTropes page and look forward to what you add next! :D  (Please see Wave Motion Cannon)

TVTropes:  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VisualNovel/Sunrider
Wiki:  http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Sunrider_Wiki

*finally tears himself off of tvtropes* Samu-kun I for one thank you and the others for making the game and all, but for linking me to a tropes page I will utterly detest you for the rest of the evening...[/jk]
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 29, 2014, 07:58:00 am
While Gorchnik certainly applauds your effort and contribution to the wiki; it is just that, a wiki.  Don't take it so seriously. 

BUT MY LORD..... (http://cheezburger.com/6414836992)

We don't need Samu-shamu to answer every question, nor do we need people to go digging through code to try to find hidden space-whales or technical names we haven't seen in the game. Wikis are supposed to be updated as more information becomes relevant.  Given that we don't even have 2/3 of the game available to us lets just take it slow yeah?

My Lord, are you forcing me to choose between you and a cat with a pink dress and hat? How can you do that, your Cruel Majesty?



Jokes aside I somewhat agree. It was however that I barely arrived at this forum 10 days ago, and then I'm suddenly changing the frontal page of the wiki. I thought, "Is this truly alright?". Considering that neither Vaendryl nor Samu-kun have said nothing to me, I will consider that as tacit approval and continue some of the wikis restructuration which is a cool name for simply creating categories and erasing others, which in fact I almost ended yesterday. I need another important-sounding task that doesn't require to do much to make it seem like I'm doing a lot...

About questions to Samu-kun, I agree that we need to let him end the game (in the case of the Paradigm I agree with you and found it silly, but still it was in the wiki's front page, so I couldn't simply delete it), but there are some things that could use a clarification, to evade plot-holes and let those with a need to expand and imagine that universe in his mind (i.e. people like me)  find some contentment.

So, Samu-kun, CG are real in-universe or a dramatic representation?! No, I'm still not getting the hint. If you don't answer, then I'll prepare a battery of questions that would leave even the best writer crying, even if I have to double-post! I'll probably do it anyway
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on July 29, 2014, 02:20:26 pm
STUFF

Remember though that almost every wiki in existence is ran by the fans FOR the fans.  Not the creators.  Naturally if the original author, developer, composer, etc feels that information is being misconstrued then they are certainly able to get in touch with whoever owns said portal or site and have them make the necessary changes.  It's on the reason on the actual TVtropes.org website that they have a YMMV tab on every entry, otherwise people would be arguing about the authors "intent" of everything until the universe implodes.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Samu-kun on July 29, 2014, 06:30:59 pm
Quote
So, Samu-kun, CG are real in-universe or a dramatic representation?! No, I'm still not getting the hint. If you don't answer, then I'll prepare a battery of questions that would leave even the best writer crying, even if I have to double-post! I'll probably do it anyway

I keep forgetting to answer this because I don't remember perfectly what's in the CGs. Even if a CG shows something though, it means that there can be other ships off camera. For example, when the Emerald Fleet arrives, it doesn't exclude other vessels in the fleet which were too far away to see, or which were off camera. (Same as when Porkchop's fleet arrives after the Sharr'Lac explodes.)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 29, 2014, 10:38:35 pm
STUFF

Remember though that almost every wiki in existence is ran by the fans FOR the fans.  Not the creators.  Naturally if the original author, developer, composer, etc feels that information is being misconstrued then they are certainly able to get in touch with whoever owns said portal or site and have them make the necessary changes.  It's on the reason on the actual TVtropes.org website that they have a YMMV tab on every entry, otherwise people would be arguing about the authors "intent" of everything until the universe implodes.

I knew, but the true is that until I arrived half of the entries at the wiki were from Vaendryl. I was slightly afraid that the front page would be a sacred cow (considering it was the part that seemingly had more effort put into it) or something. But well, I suppose that if Samu-kun created this thread was precisely to get the responsibility of the wiki off his shoulders. I will try to not mess it up a lot.


Quote
So, Samu-kun, CG are real in-universe or a dramatic representation?! No, I'm still not getting the hint. If you don't answer, then I'll prepare a battery of questions that would leave even the best writer crying, even if I have to double-post! I'll probably do it anyway

I keep forgetting to answer this because I don't remember perfectly what's in the CGs. Even if a CG shows something though, it means that there can be other ships off camera. For example, when the Emerald Fleet arrives, it doesn't exclude other vessels in the fleet which were too far away to see, or which were off camera. (Same as when Porkchop's fleet arrives after the Sharr'Lac explodes.)

First, sorry if I came across too forceful. Second, thanks because it was one of these little things that was poking in my brain annoying me. I understand that there are thing not included from the picture, but I was referring if you take into account such things as the numbers of ships on screen, or what type they are. It seems from your answer and another tidbits of information that you take scale and other details into account. But I was more referring to: In the emerald fleet scene appear at least 60 cruisers. If you put these together with the ones already there they have around 90 cruisers, while the initial number of 5 PACT fleets had around 80 cruisers. The idea here is, the emerald fleet has so many cruisers because it has them, or they while having many cruisers still have a lot of other ships and the image used for them is that of cruisers because we only have so many art budget?


Now, one question I had promised: I remember playing the game that Icari mentioned her parents dying 13 years ago. She later tells that she was 12 when that happened. From there I took the idea that Icari was 25 years old. However looking at the timeline, 13 years ago was 490, when PACT was still Compact and it didn't have that much power. I simply remembered bad these 13 years, or is there something more? (or the timeline is a clutter an the now isn't in 503, or something else?)

And to finish, the stupid question of the day: Why are the lower decks of the Sunrider called deck 2 and 1? Normally in ships the higher level decks are called higher numbers. I know that in space high or low doesn't make any sense, but still, why? Is it because the hangars are considered equivalents of the flight deck and do "higher"? But then the Sunrider seems to have a place from where to eject Ryders on the part nearer the centre. It is mystery for me...
You don't need to answer the last one
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Samu-kun on July 29, 2014, 11:14:19 pm
Quote
Now, one question I had promised: I remember playing the game that Icari mentioned her parents dying 13 years ago. She later tells that she was 12 when that happened. From there I took the idea that Icari was 25 years old. However looking at the timeline, 13 years ago was 490, when PACT was still Compact and it didn't have that much power. I simply remembered bad these 13 years, or is there something more? (or the timeline is a clutter an the now isn't in 503, or something else?)
Most people don't really appreciate the difference between Compact and PACT. They're functionally the same thing, just treated different under intergalactic law. By Icari's time, the Compact had already become PACT and Icari's not exactly someone who cares about the finer points of intergalactic law, so she just refers to everything as PACT.

By 490, the Compact had defacto control over many New Empire worlds and ongoing rebellions on virtually every world. The only world which was safe was New Eden, and even that was sacked just four years after.

Quote
First, sorry if I came across too forceful. Second, thanks because it was one of these little things that was poking in my brain annoying me. I understand that there are thing not included from the picture, but I was referring if you take into account such things as the numbers of ships on screen, or what type they are. It seems from your answer and another tidbits of information that you take scale and other details into account. But I was more referring to: In the emerald fleet scene appear at least 60 cruisers. If you put these together with the ones already there they have around 90 cruisers, while the initial number of 5 PACT fleets had around 80 cruisers. The idea here is, the emerald fleet has so many cruisers because it has them, or they while having many cruisers still have a lot of other ships and the image used for them is that of cruisers because we only have so many art budget?
I'm pretty sure the First Fleet had 200 cruisers. (Technically, they are battle cruisers, but oh well...) There's only so many ships you can show on camera though. There were many more smaller support vessels as well, but they were off camera and not very important in the battle. (Ships have to carry supplies, spare parts, munitions, hospital ships, etc, etc)

I'm pretty sure the 5 PACT fleets combined had many more than 80 cruisers. Probably more like 500, split into two fleets. They're just off camera. The cruisers couldn't play a big role in the battle because Cullen warped them out too far, so they didn't get into weapons range until most of PACT's battleships and carriers were already destroyed.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on July 30, 2014, 03:58:58 am
Most people don't really appreciate the difference between Compact and PACT. They're functionally the same thing, just treated different under intergalactic law. By Icari's time, the Compact had already become PACT and Icari's not exactly someone who cares about the finer points of intergalactic law, so she just refers to everything as PACT.

By 490, the Compact had defacto control over many New Empire worlds and ongoing rebellions on virtually every world. The only world which was safe was New Eden, and even that was sacked just four years after.

I'm pretty sure the First Fleet had 200 cruisers. (Technically, they are battle cruisers, but oh well...) There's only so many ships you can show on camera though. There were many more smaller support vessels as well, but they were off camera and not very important in the battle. (Ships have to carry supplies, spare parts, munitions, hospital ships, etc, etc)

I'm pretty sure the 5 PACT fleets combined had many more than 80 cruisers. Probably more like 500, split into two fleets. They're just off camera. The cruisers couldn't play a big role in the battle because Cullen warped them out too far, so they didn't get into weapons range until most of PACT's battleships and carriers were already destroyed.

So much backstory.  In fact theres so much Gorchnik smells the next big thing!

Coming soon: Sunrider: The Visual Novel: The Game: The Novel of the Game of the Visual-Novel. Authored by Samu-shamu with forward by Lord Gorchnik.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 30, 2014, 09:14:49 am
Quote
First, sorry if I came across too forceful. Second, thanks because it was one of these little things that was poking in my brain annoying me. I understand that there are thing not included from the picture, but I was referring if you take into account such things as the numbers of ships on screen, or what type they are. It seems from your answer and another tidbits of information that you take scale and other details into account. But I was more referring to: In the emerald fleet scene appear at least 60 cruisers. If you put these together with the ones already there they have around 90 cruisers, while the initial number of 5 PACT fleets had around 80 cruisers. The idea here is, the emerald fleet has so many cruisers because it has them, or they while having many cruisers still have a lot of other ships and the image used for them is that of cruisers because we only have so many art budget?
I'm pretty sure the First Fleet had 200 cruisers. (Technically, they are battle cruisers, but oh well...) There's only so many ships you can show on camera though. There were many more smaller support vessels as well, but they were off camera and not very important in the battle. (Ships have to carry supplies, spare parts, munitions, hospital ships, etc, etc)

I'm pretty sure the 5 PACT fleets combined had many more than 80 cruisers. Probably more like 500, split into two fleets. They're just off camera. The cruisers couldn't play a big role in the battle because Cullen warped them out too far, so they didn't get into weapons range until most of PACT's battleships and carriers were already destroyed.

Straight from Admiral Grey lines:“All together I predict at least seven battleships, six carriers, eighty cruisers, and over four hundred support vessels” This was when they thought that PACT only numbered 500 instead of 600,  but, well...

Still, this is very interesting, because I thought that when they talked about numbers they included the support ships (which tend to outnumber the combat fleet significantly as you say), but it seems that they aren't counted. Going to be important for people who play the numbers game (and about battle cruisers, could you please expand a little? they are simply more heavily armed cruisers like IRL, or something different? This could explain the differences between alliance cruisers and the PACT ones...).

Quote
Now, one question I had promised: I remember playing the game that Icari mentioned her parents dying 13 years ago. She later tells that she was 12 when that happened. From there I took the idea that Icari was 25 years old. However looking at the timeline, 13 years ago was 490, when PACT was still Compact and it didn't have that much power. I simply remembered bad these 13 years, or is there something more? (or the timeline is a clutter an the now isn't in 503, or something else?)
Most people don't really appreciate the difference between Compact and PACT. They're functionally the same thing, just treated different under intergalactic law. By Icari's time, the Compact had already become PACT and Icari's not exactly someone who cares about the finer points of intergalactic law, so she just refers to everything as PACT.

By 490, the Compact had defacto control over many New Empire worlds and ongoing rebellions on virtually every world. The only world which was safe was New Eden, and even that was sacked just four years after.


Very, very interesting. I thought that the Compact had a lot of power and influence, but was mainly underground (like the talibans in Afghanistan, in that they factually control a lot but are "hidden") until Arcadius arrived. I suppose then, that when you explained that Arcadius started liberating worlds and the Empire couldn't do anything you were talking about the core worlds? (and the Empire couldn't do anything because they had only a bit of territory and had to protect New Eden) Still, then the craft of Icari was intercepted because the Compact had very similar rules to the modern PACT (restriction on space travel) or because they thought of them as coming from the New Empire? Things are starting to get complicated and I love it.


So much backstory.  In fact theres so much Gorchnik smells the next big thing!

Coming soon: Sunrider: The Visual Novel: The Game: The Novel of the Game of the Visual-Novel. Authored by Samu-shamu with forward by Lord Gorchnik.

I admit that I'm doubting over the cards, but I would buy that so much it's not even funny.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Megillot on July 30, 2014, 07:20:45 pm
There were many more smaller support vessels as well, but they were off camera and not very important in the battle. (Ships have to carry supplies, spare parts, munitions, hospital ships, etc, etc)

Ships you describe shouldn't be anywhere near battle.
When Grey and others mentioned support ships, I always assumed it were smaller warships: frigates, corvettes, destroyers or light cruisers - too lightly armed to deal serious damage to cruisers or battleships, but useful for reconnaissance and protecting main forces from missiles and ryders.

But perhaps I'm just stupid for arguing with the lead writer.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Deathwatch on July 30, 2014, 08:32:41 pm
One thing i notice is the lack of mentioning of mercenaries, i would expect there would be some mercs around.

Merc's are in some way similar to pirates just don't rob people as much as pirates do.

Also the Alliance fleet wouldn't need as many support ships as they weren't there to attack a planet, meaning they can if nessassary syphon supplies from the planet after the battle.

Also i take it space fighter aircraft where decommissioned ? or are there still nippy fighters that aren't mecha.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 02, 2014, 10:09:07 pm
So, it appears we have been ignored by Samu-kun maybe inadvertently we found a plot hole. Ejem

Since this next week I will be slightly busy, and from 10 to 15 of August I will simply be disconnected, I ask for help to anyone who knows how to access the code for exact data of the enemy ships attacks. I personally want to create pages for enemy ships with all the data, so if someone could give me or explain how to get that information I would thank him. I plan to finish this phase 2 of the wiki by the 10, so a quick response would be better but I'm not picky.

I also I'm thinking about making a thread talking about the likely PACT military doctrine, but that is something very wiki-like, so maybe I should put my rant deductions here?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on August 02, 2014, 10:49:02 pm
So, it appears we have been ignored by Samu-kun maybe inadvertently we found a plot hole. Ejem
Sam's been really busy because of the impending release of 5.0. I kind of lost track of the discussion though. what plot hole misunderstanding specifically are you referring to?

Quote
Since this next week I will be slightly busy, and from 10 to 15 of August I will simply be disconnected, I ask for help to anyone who knows how to access the code for exact data of the enemy ships attacks. I personally want to create pages for enemy ships with all the data, so if someone could give me or explain how to get that information I would thank him. I plan to finish this phase 2 of the wiki by the 10, so a quick response would be better but I'm not picky.
in the game folder you can open the 'library.rpy' file with a text editor (I recommend anything other than notepad, really) and you will be able to find all the details about all the ships and all the weapons you might want. although it's in code, I've tried to keep it fairly readable. if you look through it for a bit things should start to make sense soon enough
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 03, 2014, 06:36:00 am
So, it appears we have been ignored by Samu-kun maybe inadvertently we found a plot hole. Ejem
Sam's been really busy because of the impending release of 5.0. I kind of lost track of the discussion though. what plot hole misunderstanding specifically are you referring to?

Quote
Since this next week I will be slightly busy, and from 10 to 15 of August I will simply be disconnected, I ask for help to anyone who knows how to access the code for exact data of the enemy ships attacks. I personally want to create pages for enemy ships with all the data, so if someone could give me or explain how to get that information I would thank him. I plan to finish this phase 2 of the wiki by the 10, so a quick response would be better but I'm not picky.
in the game folder you can open the 'library.rpy' file with a text editor (I recommend anything other than notepad, really) and you will be able to find all the details about all the ships and all the weapons you might want. although it's in code, I've tried to keep it fairly readable. if you look through it for a bit things should start to make sense soon enough

The plot holish thing we were talking about is a simple numbers game. Concretely Samu-kun talked about fleets as if they number is composed mainly of cruisers (70-80%), while this openly contradicts Admiral Grey's predictions of 80 cruisers per 500 ships. It is nothing more than a numbers game, so i suppose Samu thought: "I will look at it later" and being busy and everything forgot I don't mind, but since I saw Samu-kun in a lot of various threads and something i thought that precisely because you are near release he got more free time to herd the fandom.

Thanks about the code. I programmed a little but never with Ren'py (seems similar to Python, though?) so I was afraid to mess something up. I suppose there are no spoiler around the code?(like our Lord I also kinda prefer to not know which option gives "more points" in a first playthrough, so are the VN part and the combat part slightly separated?)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on August 03, 2014, 07:54:16 am

The plot holish thing we were talking about is a simple numbers game. Concretely Samu-kun talked about fleets as if they number is composed mainly of cruisers (70-80%), while this openly contradicts Admiral Grey's predictions of 80 cruisers per 500 ships. It is nothing more than a numbers game, so i suppose Samu thought: "I will look at it later" and being busy and everything forgot I don't mind, but since I saw Samu-kun in a lot of various threads and something i thought that precisely because you are near release he got more free time to herd the fandom.
I'd say it's only a plot hole when the game internally is not consistent. Sam can troll you on the forum as much as he wants :D

Quote
Thanks about the code. I programmed a little but never with Ren'py (seems similar to Python, though?) so I was afraid to mess something up. I suppose there are no spoiler around the code?(like our Lord I also kinda prefer to not know which option gives "more points" in a first playthrough, so are the VN part and the combat part slightly separated?)
absolutely similar to python! the 'py' in ren'py  stands for python! all of ren'py is built on the foundations of pygame and you can use pygame itself to improve the game, which is something I'm taking advantage off a lot more in 5.0. you already see this in 4.x when you use the short range warp order - a small ghost sunrider is stuck to your cursor thanks to using pygame directly.

the story is contained within script.rpy, which includes things like affection ratings and other hidden stuff like that. the combat engine consists mostly of classes.rpy, functions.rpy, screens customs.rpy, combatlabels,rpy and library.rpy. the rest of the files are for animation and some other odds and ends.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 03, 2014, 09:28:08 am

The plot holish thing we were talking about is a simple numbers game. Concretely Samu-kun talked about fleets as if they number is composed mainly of cruisers (70-80%), while this openly contradicts Admiral Grey's predictions of 80 cruisers per 500 ships. It is nothing more than a numbers game, so i suppose Samu thought: "I will look at it later" and being busy and everything forgot I don't mind, but since I saw Samu-kun in a lot of various threads and something i thought that precisely because you are near release he got more free time to herd the fandom.
I'd say it's only a plot hole when the game internally is not consistent. Sam can troll you on the forum as much as he wants :D

So it was the famed Samu-kun's trolling... Now, I remember that the wiki page of Love in Space is almost empty, what should I put...

Quote
Thanks about the code. I programmed a little but never with Ren'py (seems similar to Python, though?) so I was afraid to mess something up. I suppose there are no spoiler around the code?(like our Lord I also kinda prefer to not know which option gives "more points" in a first playthrough, so are the VN part and the combat part slightly separated?)
absolutely similar to python! the 'py' in ren'py  stands for python! all of ren'py is built on the foundations of pygame and you can use pygame itself to improve the game, which is something I'm taking advantage off a lot more in 5.0. you already see this in 4.x when you use the short range warp order - a small ghost sunrider is stuck to your cursor thanks to using pygame directly.

the story is contained within script.rpy, which includes things like affection ratings and other hidden stuff like that. the combat engine consists mostly of classes.rpy, functions.rpy, screens customs.rpy, combatlabels,rpy and library.rpy. the rest of the files are for animation and some other odds and ends.

Looking at the code, and I found what I wanted, and a pair of secrets (didn't know that there was a base "hate" for every unit). I have to commend you, your coding is very clear and perfectly understandable (even the commentaries are short but clear). So this is the difference between a pro and others...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on August 03, 2014, 09:45:14 am
Looking at the code, and I found what I wanted, and a pair of secrets (didn't know that there was a base "hate" for every unit). I have to commend you, your coding is very clear and perfectly understandable (even the commentaries are short but clear). So this is the difference between a pro and others...
thanks! makes me happy to hear that :D also good you found what you were looking for.

I'm actually not a pro at all lol. I didn't know jack shit about python or ren'py when I offered my help to Sam back during the original kickstarter  ;D
if you want to look at real pro code, you should take a look at the ren'py code itself. it's all there in plaintext .py files in the renpy folder. I'm always in continuous awe when I browse through that stuff...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 03, 2014, 10:26:18 pm
And despite all that talk today I got nothing done. I want to justify it saying something, but well, I was just being lazy...


Looking at the code, and I found what I wanted, and a pair of secrets (didn't know that there was a base "hate" for every unit). I have to commend you, your coding is very clear and perfectly understandable (even the commentaries are short but clear). So this is the difference between a pro and others...
thanks! makes me happy to hear that :D also good you found what you were looking for.

I'm actually not a pro at all lol. I didn't know jack shit about python or ren'py when I offered my help to Sam back during the original kickstarter  ;D
if you want to look at real pro code, you should take a look at the ren'py code itself. it's all there in plaintext .py files in the renpy folder. I'm always in continuous awe when I browse through that stuff...

Anyone who works creating or improving libraries is on another level of pro for me. Don't sell yourself short, Vaendryl, a lot of times clarity is more important than efficiency. When I was learning (very) basic Java code, I made a series of basic program to calculate stuff. When a year later (after finishing) I was told to make a program to calculate some other stuff (for another subject), I remember thinking that taking the basic programs I made as a base I would finish quickly. I was almost one hour to understand what the hell I had done in my own programs, only a year later. And the average grade of my programs was a 9 of 10, so it wasn't that it was bad technically. I think that clarity and organization are very important when programming, as is also one of the few things that remain when you start working on another language.

Well that was my two cents, at least my impressions based on the (extremely) basic programming I did. And I think that I have derailed this thread. Again.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Endershadow on August 03, 2014, 10:34:19 pm
I agree, I have the same problem when I don't leave clear comments in my code. Vaendryl looks like an experienced programmer to someone that doesn't know he isn't.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on August 03, 2014, 10:59:43 pm
I agree, I have the same problem when I don't leave clear comments in my code. Vaendryl looks like an experienced programmer to someone that doesn't know he isn't.
WHAT!? :o Stop the presses! We have a new headline!

Seriously though, I've looked at code before and I know it's not for me. Kudos to all of you who do program.
Without you, we'd be living in a boring, and sunriderless world.
b ^_^
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Ledabot on August 06, 2014, 02:29:11 pm
Hey, he is new to python, but he had experience before that. Sill s handsome young guy though.  8)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 06, 2014, 10:39:14 pm
And so, surprisingly I'm somehow on schedule. Yay?

The problems of reading from the code however start appearing. Are they leftovers or signs of the future?
Spoiler
  • The PACT Cruisers are programmed as having storage for 2 missiles, yet the missile attacks doesn't appear in the code
  • Inversely, the PACT mook and pirate Grunt have programmed a missile attack, yet any of them has storage for missiles (in further mystery, the PACT mook doesn't even have defined the maximum missiles)

Aside from that, I have another doubt. Do the stats and weapons of the Havoc remain equal that when you fight her? I noticed that while hard stats are good, the weapons are vastly inferior to some of our arsenal (especially the normal missiles), so I'm asking if in 5.0 which I can't play the Havoc will gain some upgrade after she joins (or even if she appear again as enemy) or it would be you that need to put the money?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Serpentes on August 09, 2014, 06:24:24 pm
I'd gladly assist in the making of tvtropes page as a trope addict myself.

Unfortunately my editing rights got suspended one year ago - for things I've done a year before that...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Samu-kun on August 09, 2014, 07:00:54 pm
And so, surprisingly I'm somehow on schedule. Yay?

The problems of reading from the code however start appearing. Are they leftovers or signs of the future?
Spoiler
  • The PACT Cruisers are programmed as having storage for 2 missiles, yet the missile attacks doesn't appear in the code
  • Inversely, the PACT mook and pirate Grunt have programmed a missile attack, yet any of them has storage for missiles (in further mystery, the PACT mook doesn't even have defined the maximum missiles)
Aside from that, I have another doubt. Do the stats and weapons of the Havoc remain equal that when you fight her? I noticed that while hard stats are good, the weapons are vastly inferior to some of our arsenal (especially the normal missiles), so I'm asking if in 5.0 which I can't play the Havoc will gain some upgrade after she joins (or even if she appear again as enemy) or it would be you that need to put the money?
Game play balance is a tricky thing. (I also can't answer about the Havoc's stats 'cause it's not playable in 5.0)

I'd gladly assist in the making of tvtropes page as a trope addict myself.

Unfortunately my editing rights got suspended one year ago - for things I've done a year before that...

Banished from TVTropes... This outta be a good story. :D
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Serpentes on August 09, 2014, 07:28:01 pm

Banished from TVTropes... This outta be a good story. :D


Not really - when I was just starting I've made few third bullets + my entries were more akin to opinions than it was allowed.

I've evolved from it and it was over half a year since last offense when I got suspended.
I am to "tell them what I've learned from the rules" before they give my rights back... And I had more important matters on my mind than studying the rulebook to satisfy their demand (seeing as my enquiry didn't count despite apologizing for my wrongdoings [and describing what I did wrong] already).

Edit:
I am not banned - just suspended. I have more time now than earlier this year so I am currently checking my edit history to find my last case of natter. After that I'm off to writing why my posts from 2012 were wrong...
I'll try to get my rights back.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Samu-kun on August 09, 2014, 07:34:23 pm
Eh that sucks, I thought TVTropes was pretty laid back... :(


Oh well, there's still our wiki if they don't give you back access.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on August 09, 2014, 07:35:06 pm
Can't you just make a new account, or something?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 09, 2014, 08:36:56 pm
And so, surprisingly I'm somehow on schedule. Yay?

The problems of reading from the code however start appearing. Are they leftovers or signs of the future?
Spoiler
  • The PACT Cruisers are programmed as having storage for 2 missiles, yet the missile attacks doesn't appear in the code
  • Inversely, the PACT mook and pirate Grunt have programmed a missile attack, yet any of them has storage for missiles (in further mystery, the PACT mook doesn't even have defined the maximum missiles)
Aside from that, I have another doubt. Do the stats and weapons of the Havoc remain equal that when you fight her? I noticed that while hard stats are good, the weapons are vastly inferior to some of our arsenal (especially the normal missiles), so I'm asking if in 5.0 which I can't play the Havoc will gain some upgrade after she joins (or even if she appear again as enemy) or it would be you that need to put the money?
Game play balance is a tricky thing. (I also can't answer about the Havoc's stats 'cause it's not playable in 5.0)[quote

Yeah I realized. Well, going to update occasionally, checking from time to time if there really was some kind of hidden attack or something


Eh that sucks, I thought TVTropes was pretty laid back... :(


Oh well, there's still our wiki if they don't give you back access.

The wiki is mine

*Cough* Actually, this next 5 days I'm not going to be connected, so someone who could edit the wiki or at least avoid any disaster (despite being very, very rare the law of Murphy dictates that the moment I will not be looking it will happen) would be appreciated. Take it as your Holiday, Samu, Vaendryl, I will not pursue you with strange questions for almost a whole week. You could also check if you like how the wiki is going, as right now only a little part of what I planned to do is left. If it all goes well I will have a little something when I return, but since it has no direct relation with the wiki it doesn't matter much.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: radclive on August 10, 2014, 05:30:12 am

The wiki is mine
whoa, little bit of a Gollum flip out there? It's your precious, understood, lol
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 15, 2014, 03:57:18 pm
So, I have returned and the wiki hasn't exploded. Well, at least something nice.

Now, 2 questions for our men:


Finally, I'm going to more or less copy-paste some of Samu-kun's posts into the wiki as lore articles (aside from the ones already there). Don't have the reference though (I saved them all precisely so I don't have to go hunting for the post again), but I suppose that you don't mind.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Megillot on August 15, 2014, 06:39:52 pm
Chigara's surname is Ashada in the character page an the promotional material I've seen, but she calls herself Chigara Lynn when she joins. Change of name through the development, or something I haven't understood?

This question puzzled me for a while as well. I even went to assume that Chigara ran her bakery under a fake name, just like Asaga.

Thankfully, magical forum search function cleared my doubts: "Chigara's full name is Chigara Lynn Ashada"
http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=86.msg803#msg803 (http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=86.msg803#msg803)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 15, 2014, 06:48:17 pm
Chigara's surname is Ashada in the character page an the promotional material I've seen, but she calls herself Chigara Lynn when she joins. Change of name through the development, or something I haven't understood?

This question puzzled me for a while as well. I even went to assume that Chigara ran her bakery under a fake name, just like Asaga.

Thankfully, magical forum search function cleared my doubts: "Chigara's full name is Chigara Lynn Ashada"
http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=86.msg803#msg803 (http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=86.msg803#msg803)

Huh. I actually suspected it a little, but I thought that it was a false name. Still, thanks a lot: that explains it, and the wiki is now updated so that anybody can see it easily.
This still left the ships question, though.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Serpentes on August 18, 2014, 07:49:33 pm
Ok.
I made an effort to regain my editing rights at TvTropes.
I'll start updating Sunrider's page little by little.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Elvis Strunk on August 18, 2014, 07:54:12 pm
Awesome. The TvTropes page could use a shot in the arm. It needs to keep up with that Wiki. It's a shame the original creator got too lazy to update it.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 18, 2014, 10:06:55 pm
Well, the wiki has finally stalled, since I'm pretty busy with both my fic, the new Beta, and RL. I'm still finding mistakes: for example, both in the wiki and Sunrider's page Kryska was still called Kriska (while I corrected the wiki, someone need to correct it in the characters page (http://sunrider-vn.com/main/characters-2/) ). 10 minutes ago I realized Sola is Sola vi Ryvia instead of Sola di Ryuvia Damm you, code geass influence, and this one is only my fault

I decided however to not update the wiki with thing of the closed Beta. I'll may touch some pages so that later I can modify it more easily (i.e: avoid plot holes, false theories, etc), but nothing more, so I may have time to do phase 3, since I suppose the next public release will not be until November.

Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on September 28, 2014, 05:12:32 pm
So, I resurrect this thread to announce that the combat page has been completely revamped. Look here (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Combat).
While I wanted a little more than simply using the tittles as new pages, I feel this way is more orderly. The Direct Combat page is basically where I put most of the old Combat page, but I extended it, updated it and added more examples. The orders page also has been revamped, but together with the difficulty setting I'm waiting for the details of the new beta before fiddling too much. Please tell me what you think.

The Enemy A.I. part has to be completed though, but today I have no more time. My idea was to finish it before the new release though, so that maybe Samu-kun can also link it so that people that protest because of the lack of tutorials can get some info without having to search through the code or the forum.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on September 29, 2014, 02:40:51 pm
Good stuff.  Continue your diligent efforts for the good of the empire! 

Spoiler
And to help new players
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on October 05, 2014, 03:26:08 am
So I made an infobox for units and tested it on the Black Jack (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Black_Jack) page, but I'm not too happy with how it affects the layout (particularly with the side ads). should have used Wikia instead

Use it, or drop it?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Samu-kun on October 05, 2014, 03:28:41 am
I think it looks pretty good. You should add some story details too, like pilot, affiliation, etc.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on October 05, 2014, 06:28:57 am
Okay, I've created pages for the PACT Support (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/PACT_Support), PACT Elite (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/PACT_Elite) and Alliance Battleship (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Alliance Battleship). Could have done PACT Assault Carrier and Mining Union Frigate too, but meh.

The Bianca (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Bianca) and Paladin (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Paladin) pages have also been updated to use the new infoboxes - added fields for pilot, affiliation and image alt text as well.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on October 05, 2014, 08:26:03 am
Okay, I've created pages for the PACT Support (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/PACT_Support), PACT Elite (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/PACT_Elite) and Alliance Battleship (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Alliance Battleship). Could have done PACT Assault Carrier and Mining Union Frigate too, but meh.

The Bianca (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Bianca) and Paladin (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Paladin) pages have also been updated to use the new infoboxes - added fields for pilot, affiliation and image alt text as well.

OH perfect. Those infoboxes are gorgeous. I'll probably use them  for a lot of other things (tweaking them a little), is a Template or did you put them directly on the page?

On the other hand, I'll also planned to make a big update after playing through the new beta. These days I had the flu though and with some new bugs in my path it will be at least a week before I'll probably can start updating everything else. Probably going to expand your pages to relate them more with the lore.

Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: AkioKlaus on October 05, 2014, 08:29:27 am
GJ.

the BJ looks easy to learn with this.

Next I guess we can add upgrade table?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on October 05, 2014, 09:58:49 am
OH perfect. Those infoboxes are gorgeous. I'll probably use them  for a lot of other things (tweaking them a little), is a Template or did you put them directly on the page?
Template:Infobox unit (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Template:Infobox_unit)

Just made a quick one for characters (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Template:Infobox_character) as well. Admiral Grey (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Admiral_Harold_Grey) gets to test it.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on October 05, 2014, 11:05:08 am
OH perfect. Those infoboxes are gorgeous. I'll probably use them  for a lot of other things (tweaking them a little), is a Template or did you put them directly on the page?
Template:Infobox unit (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Template:Infobox_unit)

Just made a quick one for characters (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Template:Infobox_character) as well. Admiral Grey (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Admiral_Harold_Grey) gets to test it.

Excellent. Probably going to make another variant later when I finally put myself into "updating wiki" mood.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on October 05, 2014, 02:03:48 pm
Okay, I've created pages for the PACT Support (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/PACT_Support), PACT Elite (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/PACT_Elite) and Alliance Battleship (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Alliance Battleship). Could have done PACT Assault Carrier and Mining Union Frigate too, but meh.

The Bianca (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Bianca) and Paladin (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Paladin) pages have also been updated to use the new infoboxes - added fields for pilot, affiliation and image alt text as well.

looks good, mate :)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: SayuriUliana on October 05, 2014, 06:06:19 pm
I took a look at the Wiki, and believe I can be of help in cleaning up the grammar in some of the articles.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: AkioKlaus on October 05, 2014, 07:27:17 pm
making it easy to read and fun is always a good thing
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on October 06, 2014, 03:37:09 am
Gorchnik approves of these edits and changes.   Well done.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lightfollower on October 06, 2014, 05:19:36 am
Unless you haven't noticed through my signature I have been mostly dealing with the characters on VNDB (in fact all but one of the edits were done by me, and I created all the character pages as well). But if anyone has anything to add to them please swing by and add them (if you have a VNDB account) I am only one person so there could be things I missed (link is in my signature).
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on October 06, 2014, 01:29:23 pm
Maybe that's not the best picture of maray 😉
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lightfollower on October 06, 2014, 02:00:32 pm
Maybe that's not the best picture of maray 😉
I couldn't find a better one and I don't know how to take screenshots.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: AkioKlaus on October 06, 2014, 05:01:36 pm
twitter has the eroge maray.


idk if anyone bought that some japanese group made sunrider fan game thing tho.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on October 07, 2014, 10:29:15 pm
Ugh why does VNDB cause anti-aliasing artefacts on resizing a perfectly good .png with alpha?

Also, I discovered that character pages there have fields for physical dimensions (and not just height and weight, but bust, waist and hips as well). I was happier not knowing.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: AkioKlaus on October 07, 2014, 03:21:59 pm
Bmw... I mean BWH is important matters for clothing
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lightfollower on October 07, 2014, 06:00:12 pm
Thank you for changing the pictures Histidine. And I agree it is annoying with the whole picture thing. It keeps bugging me every time I look at it.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on October 07, 2014, 06:12:34 pm
Sophita needs a bigger role. (Let the bust jokes begin.)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on October 15, 2014, 04:51:05 pm
Okay, all ships are infoboxed with details (including the new $ to hire / $ for kill fields). Well, except Nightmare, Arcadius-ryder, PACT Spire and Pirate Base which still lack pages of any kind because nobody did those before and I decided I CBA to do them either.
Legion also has combat stats and weapons listed.

I also updated the difficulty settings page (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Difficulty_setting) for 7.0. Now I just need some poor hapless sap kind volunteer to take the trouble of writing a concise explanation of what "2RNG" is to begin with.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on October 16, 2014, 01:15:00 am
Okay, all ships are infoboxed with details (including the new $ to hire / $ for kill fields). Well, except Nightmare, Arcadius-ryder, PACT Spire and Pirate Base which still lack pages of any kind because nobody did those before and I decided I CBA to do them either.
Legion also has combat stats and weapons listed.

I also updated the difficulty settings page (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Difficulty_setting) for 7.0. Now I just need some poor hapless sap kind volunteer to take the trouble of writing a concise explanation of what "2RNG" is to begin with.

Don't worry, I'll take care of it when I have the time (since this month we don't have a new beta I may be able to update everything). I don't think I'll touch on the combat sections until 7.2 is out though, it looks like we will have LOTS of changes. Also took the liberty of editing some things which weren't exact at all (Vaen has changed the CP thing again on 7.0), still, thank you for all!
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on October 15, 2014, 06:43:06 pm
hmm.. the whole 2RNG thing is supposed to be a hidden mechanic that doesn't work anymore if the player knows about it. next thing you'll know you've got people complaining "I MISSED 2 85% SHOTS IN A ROW AND THAT'S REALLY 95% THIS IS BULLSHIT THIS GAME IS CRAP" meaning it didn't solve the whining after all. and I was beginning to enjoy the lack of it.

btw, the enemy (while shooting) is NEVER affected by 2RNG in any way shape or form. on ANY difficulty.

also,
Code: [Select]
difficulty_penalty = store.Difficulty - 2meaning SW mode (Difficulty 5) you get 3 extra turns counted to your total. it's one turn less per step down in difficulty, but it doesn't go below 0.

maybe I should make it - 1 instead of - 2 :/  I get a feel that was my original intent. (I always keep forgetting Difficulty is 0 through 5 and not 1 through 6)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on October 15, 2014, 08:09:26 pm
hmm.. the whole 2RNG thing is supposed to be a hidden mechanic that doesn't work anymore if the player knows about it. next thing you'll know you've got people complaining "I MISSED 2 85% SHOTS IN A ROW AND THAT'S REALLY 95% THIS IS BULLSHIT THIS GAME IS CRAP" meaning it didn't solve the whining after all. and I was beginning to enjoy the lack of it.

btw, the enemy (while shooting) is NEVER affected by 2RNG in any way shape or form. on ANY difficulty.

also,
Code: [Select]
difficulty_penalty = store.Difficulty - 2meaning SW mode (Difficulty 5) you get 3 extra turns counted to your total. it's one turn less per step down in difficulty, but it doesn't go below 0.

maybe I should make it - 1 instead of - 2 :/  I get a feel that was my original intent. (I always keep forgetting Difficulty is 0 through 5 and not 1 through 6)


Okay, I'll edit the 2RNG part (and about the enemy part, I swear you said something different before, but well). Also, you got a +1 turn in there somehow. Captain mode gives you +2 turns and Hard +3.

proof: look at results here (http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=748.0) (Captain) and here (http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=833.0) (Hard)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on October 16, 2014, 09:26:29 am
hmm.. the whole 2RNG thing is supposed to be a hidden mechanic that doesn't work anymore if the player knows about it. next thing you'll know you've got people complaining "I MISSED 2 85% SHOTS IN A ROW AND THAT'S REALLY 95% THIS IS BULLSHIT THIS GAME IS CRAP" meaning it didn't solve the whining after all. and I was beginning to enjoy the lack of it.
Well.

<_<

*quietly removes it from TV Tropes as well*
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: AkioKlaus on October 16, 2014, 03:44:48 am
like how serene forest has it but (for far as i know since i didnt bother googling) fire emblem wikia does not list,
2rng is sort of 'cheat' the developers do to the users.


they can easily find out, but won't get an official confirmation of it.
u just got official denial. joking.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on October 16, 2014, 02:11:20 pm
What is 2rng anyway? Or in other words, what does it do?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: AkioKlaus on October 16, 2014, 06:16:56 am
What is 2rng anyway? Or in other words, what does it do?

RNG runs twice to give u better chance based on actual chance.

so 25% would actually be 20%  and 85% would actually be 93% stuff like that.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lost Engineer on October 16, 2014, 06:36:13 am
When players on captain or easier use a single-shot attack and their modified accuracy is above 50, their hit chance is greatly increased:
(in the following accuracy is always between 0 and 100)

2RNaccuracy = 100 - (100 - accuracy)^2 /50

(or, where miss_chance is 100 - accuracy

2RNmiss_chance = miss_chance^2 /50 )

When players on hard or space whale use a single-shot attack and their modified accuracy is below 50, the opposite happens:

2RNaccuracy= accuracy^2 /50

I think it's needless to say knowing this helps your startegy, but while it's a huge buff for anyone playing on captain it's also primarily there to stop the whining about the RNG being unfair. People's intuition doesn't cope well with % chances; subjectively one may always feel the chances are "good" if they're above 50% - and then it's the RNG's "fault" for every miss.

Edit: fixed the formulas.
Edit2: simplified the formulas.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on October 16, 2014, 03:29:48 pm
Sorry, lost, my eyes glaze over when looking at stuff like that. Think you can dumb the math down to layman's terms?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: AkioKlaus on October 16, 2014, 07:28:22 am
Sorry, lost, my eyes glaze over when looking at stuff like that. Think you can dumb the math down to layman's terms?
my bullcrap 50% off explanation is what you seek for then.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lost Engineer on October 16, 2014, 07:33:22 am
Sorry, lost, my eyes glaze over when looking at stuff like that. Think you can dumb the math down to layman's terms?
In fixing the formulas I overlooked I could have simplified them... better now? So if on captain you have a 65% accuracy with kinetic (not assault), this means your actual hit chance is...
1.) 65% -> 100-65 = 35 
2.) 35^2 /50 = 24.5   
3.) 100-24.5 ->  75.5%

When players on captain or easier use a single-shot attack and their modified accuracy is above 50, their hit chance is greatly increased:
(in the following accuracy is always between 0 and 100)

2RNaccuracy = 100 - (100 - accuracy)^2 /50

(or, where miss_chance is 100 - accuracy

2RNmiss_chance = miss_chance^2 /50 )

When players on hard or space whale use a single-shot attack and their modified accuracy is below 50, the opposite happens:

2RNaccuracy= accuracy^2 /50
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on October 16, 2014, 08:21:02 am
Okay, I'll edit the 2RNG part (and about the enemy part, I swear you said something different before, but well). Also, you got a +1 turn in there somehow. Captain mode gives you +2 turns and Hard +3.

proof: look at results here (http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=748.0) (Captain) and here (http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=833.0) (Hard)
pretty sure I was always clear on the 2RNG thing being player only, but w/e. if you stumble upon me having said otherwise let me know.

more importantly, you're right about the penalty turns. the victory screen gives a different result than what you really get!
in the actual calculation it's -2 turns from store.Difficulty, but in the screen code it's -1. thanks for helping me find this horrible bug :D
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lost Engineer on October 16, 2014, 08:26:53 am
If anyone wants to know the 2rn hit chances and doesn't want to bother with a calculator, here's a table in 5% increments. Note that 2rn applies only to single-shot attacks.

Captain and easier:
5% -> 5%
...
50% -> 50%
55% -> 59.5%
60% -> 68%
65% -> 75.5%
70% -> 82%
75% -> 87.5%
80% -> 92%
85% -> 95.5%
90% -> 98%
95% -> 99.5%

Hard and space whale:
5% -> 0.5%
10% -> 2%
15% ->  4.5%
20% -> 8%
25% -> 12.5%
30% -> 18%
35% -> 24.5%
40% -> 32%
45% -> 40.5%
50% -> 50%
...
95% -> 95%

And now back to the regular wiki discussion...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on October 16, 2014, 07:11:25 pm
Okay, I'll edit the 2RNG part (and about the enemy part, I swear you said something different before, but well). Also, you got a +1 turn in there somehow. Captain mode gives you +2 turns and Hard +3.

proof: look at results here (http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=748.0) (Captain) and here (http://innomenpro.com/forums/index.php?topic=833.0) (Hard)
pretty sure I was always clear on the 2RNG thing being player only, but w/e. if you stumble upon me having said otherwise let me know.

more importantly, you're right about the penalty turns. the victory screen gives a different result than what you really get!
in the actual calculation it's -2 turns from store.Difficulty, but in the screen code it's -1. thanks for helping me find this horrible bug :D


Ah, so that's why I had some more CP than what I thought... Playing intermittently I didn't realize about it. Going to fix the wiki (again).
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on October 17, 2014, 01:09:28 am
In fixing the formulas I overlooked I could have simplified them... better now? So if on captain you have a 65% accuracy with kinetic (not assault), this means your actual hit chance is...
1.) 65% -> 100-65 = 35 
2.) 35^2 /50 = 24.5   
3.) 100-24.5 ->  75.5%
So, as someone that never had anything even close to algebra (or forgot it if he did), what you're saying is that it takes 2 numbers and averages them?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: AkioKlaus on October 17, 2014, 01:23:23 am
In fixing the formulas I overlooked I could have simplified them... better now? So if on captain you have a 65% accuracy with kinetic (not assault), this means your actual hit chance is...
1.) 65% -> 100-65 = 35 
2.) 35^2 /50 = 24.5   
3.) 100-24.5 ->  75.5%
So, as someone that never had anything even close to algebra (or forgot it if he did), what you're saying is that it takes 2 numbers and averages them?

not average
u stack them
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on October 17, 2014, 01:34:47 am
Ok, try es'plain without the annoying symbols... :P
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on October 17, 2014, 02:03:28 am
Ok, try es'plain without the annoying symbols... :P

let's forget about all the math and look at it another way.

imagine you're playing monopoly. this game is well known for using 2 dice. you roll both of them and you move the number of spaces of both die combined. meaning, if you roll a 1 and a 4 you move 5 spaces.

because of this, the lowest number of spaces you can move in monopoly is 2, and the maximum is 12. you may assume that each number in between is just as likely to get rolled, but that is false. you are FAR more likely to roll something in the middle than something at the outer edges, and this has a big effect on how a game of monopoly turns out.

the reason for this is that there is only 1 way to roll a 2 - you have to roll a 1 two times. same with getting a 12 - you have to roll a 6 two times.
however, there are many ways to get a 7. you can roll:
1+6
2+5
3+4
4+3
2+5
1+6
meaning it's 6 times more likely you roll a 7 than it is to roll a 2 or a 12!

using 2RNG in sunrider is based on the same idea. instead of rolling a single 100-sided die the game rolls 2 50-sided die. the distribution of results gets skewed towards 50% this way.

again, though. you don't really have to mind this too much. it's intended as something that helps casual to normal players behind the scenes and only affects single shot weapons.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lost Engineer on October 17, 2014, 05:54:35 am
In fixing the formulas I overlooked I could have simplified them... better now? So if on captain you have a 65% accuracy with kinetic (not assault), this means your actual hit chance is...
1.) 65% -> 100-65 = 35 
2.) 35^2 /50 = 24.5   
3.) 100-24.5 ->  75.5%
So, as someone that never had anything even close to algebra (or forgot it if he did), what you're saying is that it takes 2 numbers and averages them?
^ means "to the power of"
So 35^2 /50 =  1225 / 50 = 24.5
Square your miss chance (taken as the number of percent) and divide it by fifty to get your actual miss chance.

The game actually works by rolling twice just like Vaendryl says, this is just a way to calculate the actual hit chance from the one the game currently displays.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on October 17, 2014, 07:07:38 am
Yeah, there's a reason I'd rather read and write stories than join my dad or any of his brothers in the engineering worlds they've trained for.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lord Gorchnik on October 17, 2014, 10:00:36 pm
Gorchnik FUCKING loves math

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTV65Awl7o51qNUxzJiYzcg2szn5IfqUJ3h-u6RwdS8rlhFRYlsHEgNYhMo)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUWmqxtCwcu1UfF7VNe-GR_KjO7dU-_x6FYdX6jKL9LYRx3330USJypAZL)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on October 17, 2014, 10:13:47 pm
Gorchnik FUCKING loves math

Spoiler
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTV65Awl7o51qNUxzJiYzcg2szn5IfqUJ3h-u6RwdS8rlhFRYlsHEgNYhMo)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUWmqxtCwcu1UfF7VNe-GR_KjO7dU-_x6FYdX6jKL9LYRx3330USJypAZL)

Once again, we have something in common. I also adore math.

I also love science and English.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on October 18, 2014, 12:14:48 am
Nice find, gorchy. XD
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Endershadow on October 19, 2014, 05:38:41 am
Gorchnik FUCKING loves math

Spoiler
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTV65Awl7o51qNUxzJiYzcg2szn5IfqUJ3h-u6RwdS8rlhFRYlsHEgNYhMo)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUWmqxtCwcu1UfF7VNe-GR_KjO7dU-_x6FYdX6jKL9LYRx3330USJypAZL)

Once again, we have something in common. I also adore math.

I also love science and English.

I also happen to love Math and Science.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on October 19, 2014, 06:12:21 am
I also happen to love Math and Science.
*looks at your avy*
I am totally not surprised.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lightfollower on October 19, 2014, 06:34:52 am
I'm a history person myself.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Pal on October 19, 2014, 10:31:16 pm
I'm a history person myself.
товарищ!
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Lightfollower on October 21, 2014, 04:13:02 am
I'm a history person myself.
товарищ!
Indeed.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Scildfreja on October 21, 2014, 12:21:38 pm
Gorchnik FUCKING loves math

Spoiler
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTV65Awl7o51qNUxzJiYzcg2szn5IfqUJ3h-u6RwdS8rlhFRYlsHEgNYhMo)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUWmqxtCwcu1UfF7VNe-GR_KjO7dU-_x6FYdX6jKL9LYRx3330USJypAZL)

Once again, we have something in common. I also adore math.

I also love science and English.

I also happen to love Math and Science.

I like to math and science sometimes.

Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/ATY0kCE.jpg)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on October 21, 2014, 06:51:02 am
I also happen to love Math and Science.
*looks at your avy*
I am totally not surprised.

Yr a programmer. If you didn't like at least math, that would be bad. (^_^)

Gorchnik FUCKING loves math

Spoiler
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTV65Awl7o51qNUxzJiYzcg2szn5IfqUJ3h-u6RwdS8rlhFRYlsHEgNYhMo)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUWmqxtCwcu1UfF7VNe-GR_KjO7dU-_x6FYdX6jKL9LYRx3330USJypAZL)

Once again, we have something in common. I also adore math.

I also love science and English.

I also happen to love Math and Science.

I like to math and science sometimes.

Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/ATY0kCE.jpg)

YES! Multiply!! MULTIPLY!! Something math haters don't understand!! WAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on October 21, 2014, 08:40:17 am
Quote
Yr a programmer. If you didn't like at least math, that would be bad. (^_^)
I suck at math lol
you really don't need much math to code unless you're doing some very specific things.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Endershadow on October 21, 2014, 11:15:41 pm
Quote
Yr a programmer. If you didn't like at least math, that would be bad. (^_^)
I suck at math lol
you really don't need much math to code unless you're doing some very specific things.

True. technically speaking, you only need to know how to add and subtract (and optionally bitwise operations) because that's all a computer does at the base level.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on October 21, 2014, 03:29:32 pm
Quote
Yr a programmer. If you didn't like at least math, that would be bad. (^_^)
I suck at math lol
you really don't need much math to code unless you're doing some very specific things.

True. technically speaking, you only need to know how to add and subtract (and optionally bitwise operations) because that's all a computer does at the base level.

Yeah, I was thinking of C++ where you have to take Calc.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Megillot on October 21, 2014, 11:52:41 pm
Quote
Yr a programmer. If you didn't like at least math, that would be bad. (^_^)
I suck at math lol
you really don't need much math to code unless you're doing some very specific things.

Specific things being games with graphics?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Vaendryl on October 21, 2014, 04:42:07 pm
Quote
Yr a programmer. If you didn't like at least math, that would be bad. (^_^)
I suck at math lol
you really don't need much math to code unless you're doing some very specific things.

Specific things being games with graphics?
graphics in general would be the primary specific thing, yeah.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Ziktofel on November 29, 2014, 06:43:14 pm
A programmer should know something about Algebra as he is working with abstract operations
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on November 30, 2014, 12:55:46 am
A programmer should know something about Algebra as he is working with abstract operations

#1) Welcome
#2) ....k.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Zkurosu on April 05, 2015, 04:45:32 am
I laughed. And then I realized I was already browsing TvTropes... and Cracked.

U-um... anyway... I hope everyone remembers to go to the actual trope pages and put an example for Sunrider there when you add new tropes. That way, more people will be able to find Sunrider through TvTropes!

Im sorry but why the hell does tharja have a wind spell e-e?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Elvis Strunk on April 05, 2015, 01:05:01 pm
To kill birds, of course! Blasted things won't stop stealing Gaius's candy, and they keep flying into Kellam.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on April 05, 2015, 05:09:19 am
I laughed. And then I realized I was already browsing TvTropes... and Cracked.

U-um... anyway... I hope everyone remembers to go to the actual trope pages and put an example for Sunrider there when you add new tropes. That way, more people will be able to find Sunrider through TvTropes!

Im sorry but why the hell does tharja have a wind spell e-e?

To kill birds, of course! Blasted things won't stop stealing Gaius's candy, and they keep flying into Kellam.

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT AND WHY DID YOU NECRO THIS THEAD?!?!?

-googles it-

...oh, it's Elvis' Avvy...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: AkioKlaus on April 05, 2015, 06:57:27 pm
excalibur te best back in the days
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on July 21, 2015, 10:00:32 am
Battle of Far Port (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Battle_of_Far_Port)
(the template took too bloody long to get right)

Planned for use in a per-level walkthrough.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on July 21, 2015, 10:41:44 am
I cannot thank you enough Histidine for your fantastic work. Right now I'm in a bit of a slump from my first days, but I really have to return some day.

BTW, now that I posted, what do you think of the character pages? Some anonymous made them, and while I value the work, it seem a tad bit too extensive even for my tastes.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on July 21, 2015, 11:24:16 am
Yeah, the character descriptions are pretty bloated even without the editorializing ("just play the game, damnit!")

They ought to be cleaned up eventually, but adding currently missing content is higher priority than removing information that's already there I think.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on July 21, 2015, 08:16:11 pm
("just play the game, damnit!")


But this allows people to use the characters for RP just like the FE Mafia game going on right now. You don't have to play the game to know the characters.

but you might as well play the game because it's fun and you'll get to play 2 games instead of just 1...
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on August 06, 2015, 11:44:10 pm
Polished/updated Nightmare, added Arcadius (ryder) and Pirate Base. That's all the units, I think. EDIT: Havoc (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Havoc) still out of date, meh
(also various other cleanups)

Okay, what to do with LibDay materials? I'm guessing we'll still use the same pages and add info to them accordingly, but there are a couple of points I'd like us to decide on:
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 06, 2015, 05:16:13 pm
I think that for now we shouldn't bother with ships and Ryders, as Samu-kun himself said that the whole combat system will be revamped for 9.0.

Still, after we reach 9.0 an idea could be to simply add the new information to the old pages, using the LibDay sprite for the LibDay stats (so a page would have 2 infoboxes), and maintain old stats and images as they are. As the core description shouldn't change, it would mean we'll simply have to make a sub-section after the current page, and probably put a (MoA) and a (LD) in its "subsection".

Of course, for characters it would be ideal to have the updated sprite in the infobox, though in some cases we can also maintain some old images (i.e. Fontana as a PACT Veniczar to contrast with his redesign as PACT's Venassar, etc)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: woolyshambler on August 08, 2015, 04:05:13 am
("just play the game, damnit!")


But this allows people to use the characters for RP just like the FE Mafia game going on right now. You don't have to play the game to know the characters.

but you might as well play the game because it's fun and you'll get to play 2 games instead of just 1...

I'm in agreement with BMU; the character pages are wordy and some of the information is subjective interpretation rather than factual, but it still seems like a shame to par it down or get rid of it. 

Should mention that I'm likely biased as I get a kick out of the little novelization tid bits the author of the character info is putting in. 
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on August 08, 2015, 06:26:26 am
Should mention that I'm likely biased as I get a kick out of the little novelization tid bits the author of the character info is putting in.

LOL! That makes you lucky as hell!
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on August 09, 2015, 12:29:54 pm
Okay, I have Sunrider Academy now (finished Asaga's arc, working on Ava's now), so I'd be interested in spending some time adding Academy material to the wiki. But first:

Should Sunrider Academy stuff even be on the Sunrider wiki? They're very closely related, so it would make sense (and it would be Work to create a new wiki), but users may expect a dedicated wiki for each game.

Okay, suppose the answer is yes: how do we handle the pages? I'm thinking:
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: woolyshambler on August 09, 2015, 02:18:33 pm
I think it would be better to consolidate on a single wiki the way other game wiki's have multiple spin-offs, sequels, etc. on a single wiki. 

Since Sunrider Academy takes place in an alternate universe, I don't see much of a problem simply adding a Sunrider Academy section to each character that details their alternate life.  The downside would be how crowded the page would get, especially with anonymous-chan updating all the pages with so much plot information.  Having a Character (Sunrider Academy) page for each major character sounds like it would be appropriate, especially if you're planning on those pages being as detailed as the main Sunrider character pages eventually.

I think the border cases you mentioned could probably get their own pages.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 09, 2015, 10:49:18 pm
Uhm, I'm with wooly with this. With the exception of Sola (maybe? I mean, it's very pseudo and now I don't remember the specifics), all the characters are in the end different too. I mean, they're themselves but without their issues, so I think they would require a totally new page.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on August 11, 2015, 03:14:57 pm
This isn't the end of the Sunrider universe, more will be added.

I've seen pages with content for multiple seasons/games/different stages of life (age based) all on one page.

Cross-overs, references, etc. It's gonna happen in all of them.

Chigara even mentioning "Do you need something scan-never mind." in Academy means there is some connection and separating it all is gonna be a pain.

Wait a sec...I have an IDEA!

Walk through here. There are a bunch of these games, and that loli girl on the right is in 2 of them.

http://agarest.wikia.com/wiki/Agarest_Wiki
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on August 12, 2015, 07:05:43 am
Alrighty.

New articles, some of which could use expanding / looking over:
Spoiler
Sunrider Academy (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Sunrider_Academy) (school) (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Sunrider_Academy_(school))
Maray Shields (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Maray_Shields) (Academy) (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Maray_Shields_(Academy))
Asaga Oakrun (Academy) (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Asaga_Oakrun_(Academy))
Bas Cullen (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Bas_Cullen) (Academy Asaga route spoilers)
Prototype (http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Prototype)

Pages that are noticably missing (with red links and everything):
Academy versions of Kayto, Ava, Chigara, Sola
Academy clubs
Jay Oakrun
Cera City
Lynn (Sunrider version)

Okay, one more thing:
There are currently several references in the wiki to the Second Battle of Helion (page not created yet). I assigned that name to the series of engagements where you fight the Legion, then the Arcadius clones, then Cosette; the First Battle being the one where PACT attacks the Sunrider while it's snooping around the system and you have to hold out six turns till warp out. But thinking it over somehow, it seems a bit strange to label this relatively small encounter as a separate battle instead of an opening skirmish for the later battle.

Should we combine them accordingly into a single Battle of Helion?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 12, 2015, 07:11:19 am
Uhm, technically yes, but if we give it the same name may bring the impression you can't upgrade or restock after the skirmish, like in Ongess. So may be give it another name? Overall though we can group it with the Battle of Helion, I mean, I did the same with the "Incident at Versta".

Though I don't think it's a glaring mistake to simply leave it as it is.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on August 14, 2015, 05:17:58 am
Do you know how to decompile to get the .png's for accuracy?

I hope Samu-Kun doesn't hate me for that.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Endershadow on August 14, 2015, 05:20:38 am
Do you know how to decompile to get the .png's for accuracy?

I hope Samu-Kun doesn't hate me for that.

You mean the .rpa file?
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on August 14, 2015, 05:53:11 am
Do you know how to decompile to get the .png's for accuracy?

I hope Samu-Kun doesn't hate me for that.

You mean the .rpa file?

Yes.

I feel like he's gonna really hate me for this...and it gets worse the more questions I have to answer....

That question was hard to answer...
(http://i.imgur.com/J2sOxGf.jpg)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on August 14, 2015, 09:24:58 pm
Do you know how to decompile to get the .png's for accuracy?

I hope Samu-Kun doesn't hate me for that.

You mean the .rpa file?

Yes.

I feel like he's gonna really hate me for this...and it gets worse the more questions I have to answer....

That question was hard to answer...
(http://i.imgur.com/J2sOxGf.jpg)
If you can handle command lines, use this (http://sn34kymofo.com/rpa-extractor-for-windows)

(please use responsibly or the space whales will be sad!)
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on August 14, 2015, 07:03:27 pm
Do you know how to decompile to get the .png's for accuracy?

I hope Samu-Kun doesn't hate me for that.

You mean the .rpa file?

Yes.

I feel like he's gonna really hate me for this...and it gets worse the more questions I have to answer....

That question was hard to answer...
(http://i.imgur.com/J2sOxGf.jpg)
If you can handle command lines, use this (http://sn34kymofo.com/rpa-extractor-for-windows)

(please use responsibly or the space whales will be sad!)

OH, so you DO know how to. Good!

I have unrpa so I didn't need the link. XD
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Cliff_Mastah_15 on August 19, 2015, 09:24:41 pm
sorry call me lazy, but i don't have time to read this whole thread atm.  So can someone please explain to me the point of the tvtrope again?  and yes, i am a bit ignorant today...having a bad week at work (but I digress).
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Shirley on August 20, 2015, 05:00:11 am
sorry call me lazy, but i don't have time to read this whole thread atm.  So can someone please explain to me the point of the tvtrope again?  and yes, i am a bit ignorant today...having a bad week at work (but I digress).

They've told me 5 times in a row before, and I still don't get it. The site design is total shit imo, and I can't ever look at a page for more than 3 seconds, so you and I are in the same barrel....
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Marx-93 on August 20, 2015, 10:10:04 am
TVtropes is basically an informal wiki where the main objective is to collect information about commonly used literary (or also for television or videogames) devices, like the typical prince charming, the noble princess, the spoiled princess, etc.

It not only focuses on the most used or the already obsolete (clichés), but also on current trends. One of the best drawing points is that a lot of works have their own page(in theory mostly TV series, as seen in the tittle, but it also has a wide selection of animes) which lists the literary devices (called "tropes") used on that work. Every trope also has its own page, with a list of examples across various mediums. This means that browsing can be fairly addictive, as you can easily jump from the page of a single series you like to the page of another trope and jump on to another series listed as an example, etc.

It's also very informal, which means it has a bunch of cool features that really shouldn't have any relation with the main objective of the page but are left as they are because they're cool (like a trivia section for a work, a list of the most awesome moments of the serie/anime/book, etc).

Also, BMU, are you really a multimedia major? While the design may be bad, that page is a collaborative work between anonymous and based basically on media expectations and analysis, so it really seems like the thing a multimedia major really should be interested on, even if only to criticize it.
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: Histidine on August 20, 2015, 10:52:41 am
I'm just mad at TV Tropes because I spent some time a few days back uploading new images for the Sunrider page, only to discover that it apparently still doesn't have any functionality for displaying images at anything other than full size (which every other wiki created after 1637 can do).
Title: Re: Sunrider Wiki/TV Tropes Page
Post by: SharrOfRyuvia on February 22, 2016, 06:22:17 pm
Ugh - I only just realized this was the official venue to put down notes on Wiki updates and modifications :P Reposting;

Well, in celebration of LB coming out in a few weeks, am pushing to get the Wiki up-to-date. Here's some bios to review - the Faux-doctor, the Tsundere Mercenary and muh Waifu the silent sniper ;D!

http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Claude_Triello#
http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Icari_Isidolde
http://sunrider.gamepedia.com/Sola_vi_Ryuvia

Also, a tentative list of 'trivia' I gathered for peer review - some of it referencing the tropes pages a bit (WARNING - because of potential spoilers in the trivia, it is naturally hidden in a spoiler tab!)

Spoiler
Kayto
- In the first draft of the story, Kayto wasn’t military-trained or even a native of Cera, instead being conceived as a freelance trader with his sister who would end up thrust into a leadership position on the Sunrider. This background was later adapted for Asaga and Chigara, only with the pair being best friends instead of siblings.
- Originally, Kayto and Sola were meant to be siblings. Echoes of this intent can be seen in how the two have something of a lingering physical resemblance in aspects of their designs, foremost being their shared white hair.
- Kayto can arguably be compared to Fate/Stay Night protagonist Shioru Emiya in regards to the Moralist path, and can also be compared to the Shirou’s alternate-timeline counterpart Archer in regards to the Prince path. Both are different takes on a single person, emphasizing differing elements of a normally good-natured man - one is idealistic and wishes to save everyone, the other is cynical and is willing to sacrifice.

Maray
- Originally, the role of Kayto’s sister was actually filled by Sola. It wasn’t until later on that Katyo’s sister was redesigned as an entirely separate character with a different name and an almost completely-reversed personality from the stoic, quiet one chosen for Sola. Additionally, the photo of Maray in Kayto’s office is actually the prototype concept for Sola.

Ava
- As of the first Liberation Day beta, Ava still held the title of most voted-for best 'waifu' in the game in spite of her standoffish nature.
- In the original draft of the story, Ava had never met Kayto until the latter stumbled aboard the Sunrider one day and was thrust into the command seat.
- Ava is regarded as being a victim of the ‘hidden buxom’ trope by Asaga in the Novelization, as her officer’s uniform and cold personality often hides or distracts from her figure. This would later be lampshaded in Sunrider: Academy during Ava’s route where Kayto remarks he never really noticed how incredibly curvaceous Ava is because of her choice in clothes and stern, almost off-putting demeanor.
- The Novelization shows Ava having more moments of emotion then in the Visual Novel, most prominent of which being Claude’s attempted molesting of Kayto; in the Novel, she screams in rage, shock and embarrassment whereas in the Visual Novel she is indifferent or, at the very least, trying to ignore the awkwardness of what she’s seeing.

Asaga
- In the original rough-draft of the story, Asaga was meant to be an ace fighter-pilot as Ryders weren’t an implemented element at the time. A shout-out to this exists in the game when Chigara mentions that Asaga flew a surplus fighter prior to her owning the Black Jack.
- Ironically, Asaga has never once won any of the character polls in spite of having claimed (in out-of-universe shorts) that she was supposed to be the female lead of the series.
- Asaga’s increasingly bitter nature towards Chigara in Liberation Day could be seen as an indirect mirroring of events in the popularity poll shorts, in which Asaga became more and more depressed that she’d lost out three times in a row to Chigara and never won even once.

Sola
- Originally, Sola was conceived as being the main character Kayto’s younger sister in the first draft of the story, and that this is why both Kayto and Sola where designed with platinum/white hair. In fact, the picture of the young Maray in Kayto’s quarters is actually the original concept-image for Sola.
- While her figure is described as being generally modest, Sola has been widely noted as having a very prominent rear-end and hips, as well as how Sola’s character-sprite often faces away from the screen in a way that shows off her back and rear. Much like the character C.C. from the popular mecha-series Code Geass, Sola has become something of an unexpected 'Ms. Fanservice' trope icon because of her shapely backside-assets, even starring in a promotional Christmas print alongside the running ‘model-girl’ Claude.
-- Also like C.C. from Code Geass, Sola is regarded as a lonely and detached woman from a long-ago age, initially desiring to die as the world around her no longer held any meaning for her and slowly regaining a desire to care about her own life again.
- It’s noted in her official bio that Sola is at least partly aware of the events her alternate-reality counterparts live through, and that she had come in direct contact with one parallel of the Sunrider Academy Kayto - the one that falls in love with his own timeline’s Sola. This makes the original Sola the only character from the main series who had a (confirmed) direct appearance in Sunrider Academy.

Icari
- Icari practically won the character poll immediately after her debut. Out of all the characters not introduced in the first airing of the game’s beta, Icari attained the fastest win in the franchise’s publication history between the time of the contest-results and the time of her first appearance.
- In Mask of Arcadius’ original script, an entire chapter was devoted to tracking down the ship and PACT captain responsible for her family’s death. This would in turn result in a hunt that would culminate with the choice of allowing a bioweapon to render a world uninhabitable in order to kill the PACT captain, or to save the world at the cost of letting the PACT captain go.

Kryska
- Kryska’s character design saw notable revision during her development, originally having had short straight hair and lacking the more tomboyish appearance she would later have.
- Kryska’s budding friendship and possible romance with Icari could be seen as one of the many instances that follow the common trope of “the odd couple” - two people of extreme opposites becoming very close over time.
- In spite of giving her age as 22, it’s been noted that Kryska is actually of equal age to the rest of the crew - around 25 years - and that the discrepancy is because she judges her age by the Solar Alliance’s calendar, which runs differently from, and apparently slower then,  the Ceren calendar. Added to this is that Kryska's age on her forged transcripts may have been given as younger then her actual age, so as to make her seem like a less-experienced common soldier instead of a highly-trained spec-ops.
- Out of the entire female cast, Kryska is thus far the only member of the Sunrider's current crew who has not expressed any romantic attraction to Kayto. Whether this is because she is not attracted to men, does not see Kayto as anything more then a friend or simply is better at hiding romantic attraction then the other females is yet to be seen.

Claude
- Claude has become something of the public fan-service icon for Sunrider, even appearing in a special Christmas promotional image for the game alongside the surprise fan-service girl Sola.
- In the original cut for Mask of Arcadius’ plot, Claude somehow managed to become the replacement executive officer for the Sunrider after Ava left the ship for a diplomatic mission with the Alliance. She took this opportunity to once again try and seduce Kayto - culminating in a purportedly-comical scene where she was all but “spilling out” of her officer’s uniform, which was likely one of Ava’s own spares. She would also end up having to take emergency command of the vessel - possibly without Kayto’s presence, as it was never specified if he was deposed as well for whatever reason - when PACT launches a surprise attack on the ship.
- Claude was regarded as one of the easiest picks for being the teased ’traitor’ due to her being the pilot with the least-explained backstory, as well as it tending to be a trope that the ‘airhead’ is smarter then they seem.
- A version of Claude apparently exists in Sunrider Academy as a student, having propositioned a ‘Kayto Shields Appreciation Club’ after the Council Vice President was scandalized by Asaga’s carelessness regarding her joking about an incident in the Kendo Club’s storage room.
— It is also speculated that Claude may have been the mysterious voice the Academy Kayto encounters in Sola’s route, as it noted that Kayto was attractive even in his ‘younger form’, suggesting she’d met either the Captain Kayto from the main games or at least one variant of him.

Chigara
- Chigara was an early favorite for the best character polls, having won at least twice and even once ending in a three-way tie with Ava and Sola.
- Chigara was regarded as one of the easiest picks for being the teased ‘traitor’ aboard the Sunrider for Liberation Day due to her apparent connection with Arcadius, which had been long-standing from the moment the latter was first seen due to their similar character sprites regarding the hairstyles and sizes.
- If Sunrider Academy is any indication, Chigara is actually a fair bit older then her appearance would let on, if equal enough to Kayto in age that she would be in the same school as him - meaning that in Sunrider, Chigara’s age in Ceren years could be anywhere between 26 and 28.
— However, if Sunrider Academy’s routes are this valid, it would also make Chigara’s age a moot point as it suggests Chigara is in fact a Prototype and, like the rest of her “siblings”, was artificially grown and aged.

Cosette
- Data-mining in the Sunrider games shows there was an R&D menu icon for Cosette’s Ryder, the Havoc, in the game files - pointing to the fact that Cosette was, either at some point in the games or in a future installment, meant to be recruited into the ship’s compliment. It’s likely that it was meant to be used at a latter date, but the decision to release Liberation Day as a separate title meant it never saw use in the original - though it did foreshadow the capture of Cosette and the choice to add her Ryder to the Sunrider’s forces.